08-04-2003 23:41									#1
	Terraforming Disagreements Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Since no-one seems to be able to poll this (stop ignoring it TKG ) I thought I'll test the waters.

If a square is in the base radius of two bases, in different regions (such as Xanadu and Cyclops) should it require the consent of both Governors to terraform their, or can one order it? If two, it means both must agree for it to be formed. If two then one can build, the other can then rebuild, if they wish.

You have 2 days.

	08-04-2003 23:46									#2
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My opinion is that it should require both. Since the square affects both bases equally, both should have the same rights over it. Maybe this should only apply to major projects (such as condensers, boreholes, echelon mirrors, etc) and not forests, farms, solar collectors, but I would think it is not that hard to get both to agree, and I would not want one to order one war, the other to then order it back, and waste precious former time.

	08-04-2003 23:46									#3
	Re: Terraforming Disagreements Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Since no-one seems to be able to poll this (stop ignoring it TKG ) I thought I'll test the waters.

i'm not ignoring it. i'm enacting an evil scheme. didn't you see the carefully planned aurillion-akiria border on my latest poll?

EDIT: yes, i think you should need the approval of both governors. so i can see why you want the borehole gone, but i just think that since it's in place now, there's no reason to destroy it.....other than that it's unconstitutional as hell

also drogue, i don't think you have the authority to order its destruction, not yet at least. but anyways, let me ask you: if i decided i wanted to poll that borehole right now (assuming it was never built to begin with), would you allow the poll? After all, Xanadu has every right to that tile that cyclops has, and if you really didn't want the borehole in your territory, they all you have to do is not work it

	09-04-2003 00:23									#4
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Write-in: the DIA gives the square to one governor, who can decide over it.

	09-04-2003 00:40									#5
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TKG: If they had the authority to allow it, I have the authority to destroy it, as Governor of Akiria. If you built it now I would still ask for a forest there, and it to be destroyed, since I want something different for Cyclops on that square. Even if I don't work it, it's still there, it's still an eyesore.

	09-04-2003 00:50									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue TKG: If they had the authority to allow it, I have the authority to destroy it, as Governor of Akiria.

just wait until you win in court, because until then, i have the authority to veto is, as DIA

quote: If you built it now I would still ask for a forest there, and it to be destroyed, since I want something different for Cyclops on that square.

even if it was passed in a poll? even if it was constitutional?

quote: Even if I don't work it, it's still there, it's still an eyesore

so? the lack of borehole is an eyesore to me
what if we put a former with hold orders on top? then you wouldn't have to see it

	09-04-2003 01:02									#7
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quote: Originally posted by TKG even if it was passed in a poll? even if it was constitutional?

What I am saying, is that it should not be polled, unless both Governors agree to poll it. Therefore, I would try to decalre that poll void, since they must be started by the Governor, or at least agreed by.

quote: Originally posted by TKG so? the lack of borehole is an eyesore to me what if we put a former with hold orders on top? then you wouldn't have to see it

A former won't quite cover it. Boreholes are awfully big

	09-04-2003 01:07									#8
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so you wouldn't agree to the poll then? i don't think that's "serving the faction the best you can"

	09-04-2003 01:13									#9
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I do. I was elected, as was every Akirian Governor, on a no-borehole pledge. Who am I to argue with the people, they have already made their feelings known. They voted for me based upon my publicised opinions, and I would like to think they would still believe that. If not, they can vote me out next election. Besides, who says the people know what's best for them? I think it is serving them better without them than with them.

	09-04-2003 01:18									#10
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I'm with you Drogue. The CCCP shows solidarity with its brethren.

GO GREEN !

-Jam

	09-04-2003 01:19									#11
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i think it's serving Xanadu better with the borehole than without it.

	09-04-2003 02:48									#12
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I voted for both to agree. It is an important issue and effects the rights of the citizens living in each base and region effected.

	09-04-2003 04:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I do. I was elected, as was every Akirian Governor, on a no-borehole pledge.

That's not technically true in my case, I just said that I would poll whether or not boreholes should be allowed in Akiria, while heavily hinting that I probably wouldn't build any regardless of how the poll turned out.

In any case, I (a very pro-FM, pro-borehole individual in general) felt that boreholes in Akiria would be inappropriate, and not necessary enough to warrant using them... Akiria, as a result, is in a rather inferior economic and industrial position to every other developed region (except Solaris, perhaps, which I consider still developing)... but it's beautiful, generally peaceful, relatively quiet, and we can actually perform seismic-activity-sensitive experiments there

Then TKG came along

	09-04-2003 04:57									#14
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Write-in: same as Maniac.

And TKG has yet to achieve the third degree of evil, I'm afraid, being but an apprentice ...

*hears large explosions, loud screaming, and lots and lots and lots of drilling* He's working on it, though

	09-04-2003 05:54									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Cedayon And TKG has yet to achieve the third degree of evil, I'm afraid, being but an apprentice ...

yes. *i'm not a finn yet. I do however have a monopoly on the WATER industry though. that's pretty damn evil if you ask me





*and i most certainly never plan to become one. and even if i did, simply living in finland does not automatically make you evil. for more on this and other subjects pertaining to evil, ask your local finn, or check out the public library

	09-04-2003 06:54									#16
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quote: Originally posted by TKG I do however have a monopoly on the WATER industry though. that's pretty damn evil if you ask me

Yes, that particular move came up at last year's EOCon (Evil Overlord Convention), even the veterans were duly impressed. Actually, it won the "Best Rookie Effort" category (and was nominated for "Best in Greed", but Morgan's had that one pegged for two centuries), though we suspect the trophy was lost in transit to the Hive prison where you were being held at the time.

quote: simply living in finland does not automatically make you evil.

That's still being hotly debated, but a general consensus has emerged that one must have actual Finnish blood (being raised in Finland is a plus) to achieve the level of evil denoted by the title "Finn".

	09-04-2003 16:45									#17
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quote: Originally posted by TKG i think it's serving Xanadu better with the borehole than without it.

Possibly (although I disagree) but I think it is serving Cyclops better without it. Moreover, I think the negative benefit to Cyclops is bigger than the positive benefit to Xanadu, and thus, overall, I think that borehole creates more harm than good.

	09-04-2003 23:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Cedayon one must have actual Finnish blood (being raised in Finland is a plus) to achieve the level of evil denoted by the title "Finn".

i do have some of that, actually. i keep it in a flask in my desk
seriously though, i do have finnish blood (the kind you're thinking of), though not enough for me to be considered evil. not by a long shot.

	10-04-2003 00:17									#19
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An Amendment to this effect has been posted Here

	10-04-2003 00:31									#20
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quote: Originally posted by TKG i do have some of that, actually. i keep it in a flask in my desk

Handy stuff, actually, just sprinkle a few drops on anything and it should dissolve it. Make sure to be wearing full biohazard-handling gear before exposing the ichor to air, of course

quote: seriously though, i do have finnish blood (the kind you're thinking of), though not enough for me to be considered evil. not by a long shot.

Even in the low concentration you have, it shines through