09-04-2003 08:07									#1
	More Radical Proposals Civ.IV Next Age Suffering from ads?

Food, Factories, Future

Age of genetics; very much is seen as a potentially next generation name, unless you'd preferr the Age of China ... the future world power to endanger the USA

However, here comes the radical suggestion to the future combination rather than elimination of ideas.

Food

In a game Call To Power a improvement for cities called a Pig Vat existed (long time since played so may be wrong name)

The use of this improvement was essentially no loss of life due to lack of food .... very next generation; further the supermarket was a favorite too, but consider expanding the supermarket idea again .... up to the public or programmers how.

For programmers, one food could = 2 food with one type of improvement and then with another 3 or 5 and then 5 to 10 ...... could make senarios varying that controlled variable.

Thus the food supply could multiply exponentially allowing for mammoth cities, try strategy in that .... makes things insane money and production wise. True improvement and Battle possibilities, plus threats from that little country slowly building UP not OUT.

Just opinion, and to do that in a war situation expands risks of the massive unrest lol take a city with 100 DISSENTERS now try that for strategy to stop the riots while risking a nuke up your butt.


Factories


Next, factories need to be revamped; honestly having multiple types of factories drives me nuts in Civ. III, that is in itself micromanagement isn't it but for the little city builders. Haters on my expansion of ideas on armies .
take that.

Factories with levels of construction not types to multiply productivity. Simplified lots lots.

However, to have no lag time between making tanks and making consumer goods? What nut thought that up?

Why can't I make multiple items, such as say one tank and left over for consumer goods ..... isn't that more realistic? Perhaps not if factories are ONE factory and not MORE THAN ONE. Thats why we have MANY per city.

Plus it be fun if could concentrate food imports to one city to make say 5 tank units a turn (more ppl with more production = more overall production) ha ha take that for strategy .... so evil.

For strategists why not shift all production to one city, though to do so at a acceptable loss of productivity. Was caravans in Civ. II ... my personal fav. way of racing computer to wonders of the world.

Factory workers exist as usual, thats the fun of huge cities .... small guy can build up and make a threat.

Though larger countries always have upper hand .... if you find a way around that then let me know. Let everyone know your genius.


Future


My other suggestion is pull a Call to Power, I loved underwater city idea myself .... talk about insane races to technology.

Combination of the games into one with these excellent graphics only make a better game, and leave the option for the classicists to turn off underwater city options.

Plus the idea of space cities more than is a interest, no one has yet streamlined them into a civilization game well though .... perhaps in the future (no pun intended) that will be possible.

And again for classicists leave the option to halt at the modern age, but allow for other Sci. Fi. fans to enjoy the limitless options of the future.


Onward and Upward, strategically planned of course.


And if you want radical ideas argued and debated just ask me always open to debate on everything from modern politics to Civilization tactics to abortion.

Thanks for listening to the banter and now do bring on your opposition, I know I may be wrong, and these are just ideas .... to each idea is a equal opposite one.





Micro vrs. Macro .... Simplicity vrs. Complexity





PS. oh I forgot to add, why can't we barter food for money or threats etc. ? extorting food .... sounds so Roman whahahah;

food is a very valueable commodity and more controlling than money on a country when in limited supply (starve 'em out)

Last edited by azhreii on 09-04-2003 at 08:14

	09-04-2003 09:06									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

ANY radical change in civ is subjected to much, much,
MUCH arguing and discussion between game developers, since a classic should have changes and improvements, but should never be so different that it could be almost classified as a "different game".

	11-04-2003 08:08									#3
	Got spare money?

i understand the simplicity of the current food model, but something must be done to prevent huge artic/desert cities. somehow climate needs to be implemented.

	11-04-2003 08:41									#4
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I think they should allow food to be transported from one city to another, like you could do with Caravans in civ2, but on a much much larger scale (and not requiring Caravans). They should also allow, with the industrial revolution, the "farm" tile improvement (like in civ2, though you don't need a supermarket) and some city improvements that increase food output - but only can be built if the city has a certain percentage of its worked tiles as farms.

Shields should represent materials, not production, which I'll explain in a second. First, though, shields should have the same sort of thing as food - they can be transported, with the industrial revolution you can have essentially "ubermines" and an "ubershieldbonus" city improvement(s).

I think that before the industrial ages the production model should be left basically the same as it is. With the industrial revolution, though, you shouldn't be able to build most things with shields; you instead need urbanized tiles, each of which draw a certain number of shields (which you can allocate on an individual basis) from the city in which it is located. Shields of course can have been transported to that city from a mining city.

There would be a new tile improvement, "urbanization" (or whatever), that could only be built next to a metropolis (or next to an urbanized tile and within the city radius of that tile's city). This tile is "owned" by the city that works it; it is completely useless (except for a good defense bonus) otherwise, and all of the urbanized tiles worked by a city must be contiguous and be at least roaded. They provide lots of trade but no food or shields. These tiles would each first need to build a "factory" (which does not give a production bonus) using their shields, which would allow them to build most of the units and whatever improvements are available to an urbanized tile (cities need to build factories too). Each urbanized tile (including a city) can build one thing at a time.

	11-04-2003 18:37									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Sounds like you want to recreate urban sprawl in civ4. I think todays simpler model works just fine.

	12-04-2003 00:39									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

No, I don't. I want to add a lot of strategic depth to the game. Right now only a few factors define how important a region is to your empire. With the ability to transport food and shields, the different parts of your empire would be interdependent, with your high population, industrial regions needing food from the agricultural regions and materials from the mining regions; if you lost a major agricultural center, you could have starvation throughout your empire. But if you don't have those industrial regions, you'll never be able to build up a modern military, and you'll be vastly behind your opponents in gold and science. With urbanization, you could actually have small yet immensely powerful nations.

	27-07-2003 04:19									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

i like civ 3 as it is however yes farming needs soting out its boaring and not having the farm tile any more ??? i dont get it.
best thing they can do with civ4 is allow unit stacking all the time an do a RON with is .... move troops as normal and then in combat go in to a real time combat useing that tiles terrain as the map. Thank you that is all

	27-07-2003 09:52									#8
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by skywalker There would be a new tile improvement, "urbanization" (or whatever), that could only be built next to a metropolis (or next to an urbanized tile and within the city radius of that tile's city).

I think that's a great idea! I like the concept of the factory being a necessary factor in the conversion of "materials" to "products" at the industrial revolution.

This idea combined with your "uber farms" really gives some texture to a kingdom. I think "The Ruhr" in Germany which the Allies bombed continuously due to a concentration of German industries versus "the breadbasket of Ukraine".

	28-07-2003 02:16									#9
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Lots of nice ideas...
but
I used to play CtPII and it started as early as civ and lead into the future eras. Instead of implementing all these stuff into civ4, we could have CtPIII, with even more future techs and improvements. And of course with a much much nicer look. After playing civ3, I had a look at the maps in CtPII, uggh disgusting

By the way, I don't like the "Age of Genetics", that's a personal issue I guess as a geneticist, considering that the Ottomans isn't one of my favorite civs.

Also instead of launching a spaceship to Alpha Centauri, why can't we colonize the solar system, the Moon, Mars, Titan, Io, Europa, etc.

We definitely need a link between civ/CtP and Alpha Centauri
there is a game called "Galciv", which I haven't tried yet, but it doesn't look like a Sid kinda thing

In one of the threads smo posted a proposal that we should have growing cities, growing into metropolis or two near cities becoming one big big city: New York+Philedelphia=New Delphia or Los Angeles+San Francisco=San Angeles
As far as I remember, no one responded to that post and I'd like to have you guys hear it one more time, since I really loved the idea

Last edited by ISTANBUL on 28-07-2003 at 02:21

	28-07-2003 02:21									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I recall an old Civ2 scenario, in which mines looked like little industrial areas. The net effect was that cities where surrounded by a mixture of agricultural fields (farmlands) and industrial suburbs (mines). Very pleasing aesthetically. Anyone know if there's any Civ3 mods/scenarios with a similar approach?

Moving food between cities makes sense, but really only in the later ages. I suggest the cities need be connected by RR or sea-route, and also need have granaries.

I really don't want to see "tactical" combat in Civ IV, especially not real-time such. It wouldn't really be civ anymore, and large compaigns would take forever.