10-04-2003 13:28									#31
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I heard Leclerc has an autoloader.

	10-04-2003 13:36									#32
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Yep, it has.

	10-04-2003 13:37									#33
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quote: Originally posted by muxec It was rumored that Malyshev's Factory in Kharkow produces some kind of T-95s and sell them to Turkey.

More probably they just re-named one of the T-72 modifications.
Real T-95 is classified tank with no crew members in turret, created in "Uralvagonzavod" in Ekaterinburg.

	10-04-2003 13:40									#34
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Autoloader= GAVNO.

	10-04-2003 13:55									#35
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Say it to Yanks. The autoloader is one of the features of THEIR concept of tank of the future.

	10-04-2003 14:02									#36
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Since they don't use the current version of the Autoloader ( realizing it's crap, and all ), they probably have some other concept.

	10-04-2003 14:05									#37
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Merkava Mk4 stats:

Crew: 4, driver, commander, gunner, loader

Dimensions :
Length with gun forward 9.04m
Width without skirts 3.72m
Height to turret roof 2.66m
Weight 65t

Engines:
V-12 diesel engine 1,500hp

Performance:
Maximum speed over 60km/h
Cross country speed up to 55km/h
Range 500km

Weapons:
Main gun 120mm
Ammunition on board 48 rounds
Ready to fire rounds 10
Machine gun 7.62mm
Mortar 60mm
Mortar range 2,700m

	10-04-2003 14:57									#38
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I didn´t vote because the Leopard 2 and the M1A2 are moretheless the same weight. Sorry guys.

But for I´m an European I would have given my vote to the Leopard 2.

	10-04-2003 14:58									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Since they don't use the current version of the Autoloader ( realizing it's crap, and all ), they probably have some other concept.

They just don't have an auto-loader which is able to operate with their shells. Manual loading of cannon that's what real GAVNO (as you like to say). Next thing you gonna tell me that muskets are better than machine guns.
Cool pictures btw,

	10-04-2003 15:03									#40
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Leopard 2, of course.

	10-04-2003 16:20									#41
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The russians have most experience with tanks.

I vote Black Eagle.

Attachment: black eagle 640.jpg
This has been downloaded 136 time(s).

	10-04-2003 16:28									#42
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I saw this one with my own eyes during exhibition few years ago. (It was shown to public only once. This picture is from military exhibition which was in my home city a couple of years ago)
It's a butt-kicking monster

	10-04-2003 16:52									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Daz I vote Black Eagle.

The Black Eagle is an export-only version.

So it is probably not as good as the T-95.

	10-04-2003 17:00									#44
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Yea... Black Eagle sounds better, though!

	10-04-2003 17:27									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The Black Eagle is an export-only version. So it is probably not as good as the T-95.

It wasn't exported anywhere, yet.
There are two major tank plants in Russia- Omsk's plant (T-80U, Black Eagle) and Ekaterinburg's plant (T-72, T-90, T-95). There is a great competiotion between two plants and guys from Ekaterinburg actually kicked our Omsk's asses in this struggle and T-90 was chosen as Russian MBT and put in mass production (while T-80U of course is much better) So, Black Eagle it's our attempt to beat Ekaterinburg asses in struggle for new contract. But T-95 is classified and I really have no clue how good it is. What is known about this tank is that it has 152mm gun (instead of 125mm) in unmanned turret. That crew is placed in a unitary armored pod inside the hull. It has also other features as unique fire control system and unique suspension system. Not much know about this tank really. It should looks like this:

	10-04-2003 20:13									#46
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I would say it depends. A tank with 55 litres volumina is surely inferior to one with 80 litres. Though what if the 55 litres has handles and wheeles. Then of course I would think the 55 litre tank is much better since you can move it around more easily. Lifting a 80 litre tank full of water is something you can forget to do. The material is also of importance as wood might be cool, but maybe not so stable whereas titan surely is stable but not practicable. However it greatly depends on what you need. When the tank is a sitting duck where you just pour water in and out and does not have to be moved the best one is the largest one with best hull. But when you have to move a lot, you have to sacrifice on volumina and need features like wheels, handles and maybe for very large tanks even an engine would be handsome (with remote control of course). Now imagine such a beauty. Your own 100 litre water tank, nuclear powered and made of stainless steel, waiting for you to pour in your emergancy ration of beer, vodka or anything and when finally the russians have conquered the world, there is one last huge gigantic ..... I am so excited I .. I....

There is clearly no simple descision.

	10-04-2003 20:45									#47
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Merkava is good tank, but i saw Israeli tankist's uniform and i do not want to vote it.

	10-04-2003 20:52									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki The Swedish version of the Leopard II is often considered the best tank out there right now

Tell me about it, I was in a AT infantry platoon as a swedish conscript. You could be face down in a ditch waiting for the damn day to be over and that damn upgraded tank on the other side of a small forest 500 meters away and still able to take me out. Or maybe they where just cheating (they like to do that).

	10-04-2003 22:51									#49
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To Atahualpa

That was fun.

	10-04-2003 23:03									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki The Swedish version of the Leopard II is often considered the best tank out there right now,

[flag waving] well I think the most modern version Leopard 2A6 is in German service too[/flag waving]

	10-04-2003 23:04									#51
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The best tank? That would be the one with US air power above it.

	10-04-2003 23:11									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Daz The russians have most experience with tanks. I vote Black Eagle.

Ahhh, but you have to take into account the quality of craftsmanship. The US tanks go through many more quality control tests; especially when it comes to safety.

Also guys, the Abrahms has proven itself in a large scale conflict. Other than maybe the Israeli tanks, no other tank even comes close to having the proven combat effectiveness of the Abrahms.

	10-04-2003 23:15									#53
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You've got to go with the people's choice: the T-62!

Recommended by four out of five dictators.

	10-04-2003 23:15									#54
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quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV The best tank? That would be the one with US air power above it.

EXACTLY!

	10-04-2003 23:27									#55
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The fifth dictator has T-64's and kicks the butts of the other four!

	10-04-2003 23:42									#56
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quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV The best tank? That would be the one with US air power above it.

Well, I guess that doesn´t do for Iraqi tanks

	10-04-2003 23:45									#57
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I remember seeing something a couple of years ago that the leo had out performed the M1A1 in some competition they have every year or two. The challenger was a very close third. I think that it was some type of NATO thing. Anybody know if they still do this?

The M1A2 sure did look impressive when they detailed some of its capabilities on TV the other day.

	10-04-2003 23:57									#58
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FOX news I presume?

	11-04-2003 01:21									#59
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Leopard tank platoon: (Norway)

These upgraded tanks is capable of firing while moving fast, including nighttime warfare without the use of light source. There are three categories in the Norwegian army, Leopard 1A1 (Old), Leopard 1A5 (New), and Leopard 2.

These are almost similar outside, but not inside. Both Leopard 1A1 and 1A5 weights about 40.000 kg, and got 830 hp. Both have a 105mm cannon in which can shoot on distances up to 2500 meter. Main difference between Leopard 1A1 og Leopard 1A5 is among others the target aquiring and aiming system.

Leopard 1A5 has an automatic target aquiring system. It will adjust the weapon based on distance measurement using laser. Leopard 1A1 has an older system which is somewhat less advanced than the system on the Leopard 1A5. There is one commander and three crew members on each.

Leopard 2, as being the option in this poll, has a combat weight of 55.000 kg, empty weight being 52,000 kg, and its hull has spaced multi-layer armor. The prototypes looked at first glance very much like the Leopard 1A4, but with a wedge-shaped bow and an exhaust grille moved to the rear plate. The roadwheels came from the MBT/KPz-70, and the return rollers from the Leopard 1. The engine also came from the MBT/KPz-70, a 12 cylinder MTU MB-873 Ka-500 water-cooled multi-fuel four-stroke engine, together with its 20 kW generator, gearbox, air filters, and the cooling and braking systems, forming a compact group that could be easily replaced in 15 minutes.

The running gear consists of seven dual rubber-tyred road wheels and four return rollers per side, with the idler wheel at the front and drive sprocket at the rear. Torsion bar suspension is employed, with advanced friction dampers provided. The Diehl 570F tracks, with rubber-bashed end connectors, have removable rubber pads and use 82 links on each track. For use in icy ground, up to 18 rubber pads can be replaced by the same number of grousers, which are stored in the vehicle's bow when not in use. The first four sessions of the side skirts are heavily armored, and must be raised for rail transport. The remaining sessions are made of standard rubber and metal fabric and are hinged to swing upward if neccessary.

The driver's station is located at the front, offset to the right of the vehicle's center line. A large, pintle-mounted lift-and-swing type hatch is provided for the driver and opens to the right. There are two observation periscopes in the driver's hatch, plus one to the left of his section, for use when driving closed down. The central periscope (in the hatch) can be exchanged for a passive IR-sight for night operations. An escape hatch is provided under the driver's seat.

The turret, incorporating multi layer armor, is mounted in the center of the hull and is manned by the commander and gunner in the right half, with the loader in the left half. The commander and the loader each have a circular hatch, opening to the rear, and six periscopes provide all-round vision for the commander. Both hatches have ring mounts for the 7.62 mm MG-3 air defense machine gun, though it is normally installed on the loader's hatch.

The 120 mm Rheinmetall main gun is fully stabilized in both azimuth and elevation, and the WNA-H22 electro-hidraulic gun control system is fitted. The gun fires two types of ammunition, both developed by Rheinmetall APFSDS-T, known as DM-33 KE (Kinetische Energy), and HEAT-MP-T, known as DM-12 MZ (Mehrzweck = multipurpose), both types having combustible cases. 27 rounds of 120 mm ammunition are stored in a special magazine in the forward section of the hull, to the left of the driver's station - additional 15 (making a total of 42) are stored in the left side of the turret bustle, and separated from the fighting compartment by an electrically operated door. Should the ammunition in the bustle be hit, blow-off panels in the turret roof would direct any explosion upwards. A co-axial 7.620mm MG 3is mounted to the left of the main gun and 4,750 rounds of machine gun ammunition are carried. Ok, it must be the best!

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 11-04-2003 at 01:41

	11-04-2003 03:21									#60
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quote: Next thing you gonna tell me that muskets are better than machine guns

how many rounds per minute does the best autoloader shoot?