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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > What is the best tank?
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what is the best tank?
This poll is closed.
T-90 2 3.03%
T-95 4 6.06%
Black eagle 2 3.03%
m1a2 21 31.82%
T-80 lastest version 1 1.52%
leclerc 4 6.06%
leopard 2 19 28.79%
T 98 (chinese) 0 0%
K1A1 0 0%
Ariete 0 0%
Merkava 4 4 6.06%
Challenger 2 1 1.52%
Olifant Mk1B 1 1.52%
Bananas they could disable armies and are edible. 7 10.61%
Total: 66 voters 100%
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Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 12-04-2003 16:55
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#91 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by raghar





"Mommy, can I go play the video games? can I can I can I? please mommy..."

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 09:42
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
Yeah, I guess it's a WW2 light battletank. They had many funny designs back then, and WW2 antitank vehicles could be similar to certain tanks in design. Modern tanks normally uses one huge barrel whose range matters...


No, it's T-35 first Soviet Heavy tank.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 10:16
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
Nice site BeBro, I found this awesome russian song there...

code:
The tanks were rattling like a thunder The soldiers went to final fight And here they carried young commander With head all broken outright




Na pole tanki grohotali,
Soladty shli v poslednii boi,
A molodogo komandira,
Nesli s probitoi golovoi...
Old, good, WW2 song...
It's one of my favorite songs. It's very good translation, but original Russian version is 1000 times better of course.
I like to sing it, when I'm drunk
quote:

Sad melody I guess...
They are good at making sad songs, the russians.

It's sad, yes... but at the same time it's fast song.
Btw, I can find you a Russian version if you wish.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 10:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
quote:
Next thing you gonna tell me that muskets are better than machine guns



how many rounds per minute does the best autoloader shoot?

Standard autoloader of T-80U makes 7-9 per minute.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
For Serb. The US had a 152 mm tank 30 years ago and did not like it. It was the M-60A2. It saw service in Vietnam.

I guess main gun of T-95 is somehow different from M-60A2.
quote:
There was a T-80 in the vote. In Gulf 1, the Marines with their M-60A3 met the Iraqi Republican Guard T-80s and destroyed all of them without a single loss.

Are you absolutely sure that it weren't cheap, export modifications of T-72?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 14:22
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quote:
Standard autoloader of T-80U makes 7-9 per minute.

That's crap, you realize that, right?

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 15:03
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No

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 15:07
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well, it is. Human crews do better.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 15:10
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Crew where Arnold Shwarzeneger is loader?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 15:15
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no. a human loader will do around 10-20 shots per minute, 15 on average.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 15:20
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If he's well-trained, of course. hmmm, now I see the logic in putting autoloaders on Russian tanks.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 17:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
no. a human loader will do around 10-20 shots per minute, 15 on average.


A human could load the gun within 4 seconds in the middle of fire fight while tank is moving at top speed through rough terrain?
Yeah, right and I have a bridge to sell.
1) I'm not a tankist but my buddy was. And he believes that tank ammunition is pretty heavy stuff and that humans are affected by such thing as tiredness.
2) Tanks do not shots non-stop as machine guns, yet. You need some time to chose target and rotate the turret. So, speed of modern autoloaders is more than enough, but it helps to:
a) reduce number of crew members -> space, wich is one of the critical factors for tanks.
b) exclude such factors as tiredness/mistakes/injury/death of loader.

Seriously speaking, do you really believe that manual loading is better concept than autoloading?

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 17:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
If he's well-trained, of course. hmmm, now I see the logic in putting autoloaders on Russian tanks.


I'll bet my money on Russian crew in any physical competition between Russian and Israelis tankists.
Btw, the presence of autoloader doesn't mean that tank's gun can't be loaded manually. It's possible to load it manually, but who needs it when automatic can handle this?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 17:27
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Look dude, just ask MtG.

quote:

I'll bet my money on Russian crew in any physical competition between Russian and Israelis tankists

"sila yes, uma ne nado"?

pomni 73'iy.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 17:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
Look dude, just ask MtG.


Who? Magic the Gathering?
quote:
quote:

I'll bet my money on Russian crew in any physical competition between Russian and Israelis tankists

"sila yes, uma ne nado"?

We have a Tank academy in my home city. Believe me they are pretty tough mother****ers, consider how they fights on discotekas.
quote:
pomni 73'iy.

I don't remember that in 1973 Israelis fought versus Russian tank divisions.
Anyhow, pomni 45.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 17:49
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quote:
Who? Magic the Gathering

Yes. MichaelTheGreat.
quote:

We have a Tank academy in my home city. Believe me they are pretty tough mother****ers, consider how they fights on discotekas
Kak ya i dumal. mozgi ne varyat.

quote:
Anyhow, pomni 45
Ya ta pomnyu. moy ded slujil, bil tankistom. ahh, pochemu seychas takih ludei pobolshe netu, kag togda.

quote:
I don't remember that in 1973 Israelis fought versus Russian tank divisions
Yeche huje, vi nanayali arabov dlya etovo. mozgi vaache ne varyat.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 17:53 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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#107 Report this post to a moderator
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Shouldn´t we have a new thread for the autoloader vs. crew problem?

It seems to be quite a big question...

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 18:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
Yes. MichaelTheGreat.

Is he truth in last instance here?
quote:
Kak ya i dumal. mozgi ne varyat.

Nalichie navikov rukopashnogo boya ne iskluchaet nalichiya mozgov, btw.
quote:
Ya ta pomnyu. moy ded slujil, bil tankistom. ahh, pochemu seychas takih ludei pobolshe netu, kag togda.

Moi ded umer vchera Herovo mne Azazel, poidu vipiu chego nibud.
quote:
Yeche huje, vi nanayali arabov dlya etovo. mozgi vaache ne varyat.

Kuda uzh nam do vas.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 21:42
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quote:
Moi ded umer vchera Herovo mne Azazel, poidu vipiu chego nibud.

Za tvoyevo deda. moy, bedni, yeche v 87'om, ot kureniya. Kakoye pokoleniye, kakiye ludi.

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 21:46
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#110 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

and thus the thread died when it became a private conversation

Joseph is offline Joseph
Prince
Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:27
  Old Post 13-04-2003 23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Serb

I guess main gun of T-95 is somehow different from M-60A2.

Are you absolutely sure that it weren't cheap, export modifications of T-72?
The reports at the time said they were T-80s. Shootout at the Kuwait Airport.

Kramerman is offline Kramerman
Prince
UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 01:02
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quote:
Kuda uzh nam do vas.


NIET!

Chilean President™ is offline Chilean President™
Deity
Viña del Mar, CHILE
Feb 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 01:06 Visit Chilean President™'s homepage!
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#113 Report this post to a moderator
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What does this means "Ya Soshla S Uma"? Is the title of a T.A.T.U.'s song

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 01:47
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#114 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

"I've lost my mind."

Russian Cultural Emperialism!

It's the reply to the soap operas.

raghar is offline raghar
Chieftain
I wish somewhere else.
Oct 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 02:02
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Boys next time use azbuka, it woudl be easier to read.

One crewman less is nice for supplies and tank size. Smaller tank - higher armor. And dont forget what I said: 65 per min is possible. I think it would be possible to install an water cooling on tank gun too.

BTW do anyone knows current price / tone of armor? I would like to see some price comparison.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 02:04
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there is no point on having 65 rounds per minute. Your turret won't be able to aquire targets fast enough.

raghar is offline raghar
Chieftain
I wish somewhere else.
Oct 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 02:43
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You could fire on balistic curve and have guided ammo. If enemy could deploy countermesures, you have higher chance to hit his tank. Only problem would be with ammo storage. You know normal tank have just about 42 rounds.

BTW why have 10 rounds per minute half manual loader, when you could have 8 round per minute autoloader with autoturning turret and arena system? 22/8 is 3 minutes of fire, then you must retreat or provide just battle support for other tanks.

What matters is resistance to BONUX and STYX + ERA armor.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 02:46
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human loaders do around 15 rounds per minute, the western ones, at least, afaik. That is a shell in every 4 seconds, just enough time for the turret to aquire another target.


65 shells per minute is crazy. you won't be needing that much rof for a tank main gun.

And yes, storage is a big problem.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 02:49
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quote:
Seriously speaking, do you really believe that manual loading is better concept than autoloading?

concept has nothing to do with that. I am talking about what we have now. now we have a semi-automatic revolver type system. It is the one that gives us 10-20 pm rof. An automatic loader simply takes too much time.

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 14-04-2003 02:57
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quote:
Moi ded umer vchera Herovo mne Azazel, poidu vipiu chego nibud.


Srazu vidno chto ruskiy.

 
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