10-04-2003 12:19									#1
	For Discussion: An Alliance of RP and GoW Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We all know that Vox is at war with GS. GhengisFarb has reported that Vox has many units going toward GS and has seen this with his own eyes. GoW thinks that Vox will win this battle; so our 'help' is not really needed by Vox.

Vox is staying with its Public Forum disclosure that they plan to settle on Bob. Since this land is currently claimed by ND they may be sending a few units to check this out.

The current NAP with ND expires on turn 101. The Arabian's UU is pretty close, they only need Chivalry to pull it off. How close are they? Do we want to wait around and find out?

Right now ND supplies GoW it's Iron. What if we hook up our other Iron source and offer it to GoW for some Wine and the the Alliance against ND. We get GoW to join this Alliance by letting them know it is a good time to secure their own source of Iron, which is North of any ND city. One single worker can make a nice source of Iron for GoW. Once GoW has their own Iron we can trade our Dyes for the Wine.

We also let GoW know that this is the best time to aquire land that would allow them to have more cities in order to deal with Legoland, who's currently building away, unfettered by any other! We should plan the Alliance with GoW to include the eventual invasion of Legoland by both of our teams. A long term Alliance with GoW would be favorable to both teams. The Bob continet is large enough to support two teams well into the future. After Legoland is taken care of, we focus on (Vox?/GS?).

Our NAP with ND, up till now, has been always extended by our request. We should continue that tradition, so as to allay any fears that they may be having. We just sort of delay it a bit by making suggestions to it by adding this or taking that away; this 'delay' is only needed to be long enough to allow the current NAP to expire and to let GoW change it's production to accomodate war with ND.

We need to make this all happen soon with GoW so to give them time to prepare and also not to tip off ND as to our plans. I think we cannot expect a better situation to present itself in the future for the removal of ND. Both RP and GoW need for ND to be "gone" in oreder to carry on as a power in this World.

I believe that I read in these forums that GoW was 'opportunistic' in the eyes of some. I think this is certainly an opportunity that GoW won't turn from. They will also have Riders soon. It is probably their plan to mass upgarde the Horsemen they are now concentrating on and then go after ND. We have to convince them that the time is now for them to act. We need to convinvce them that the war will be cheaper now, against ND, than in the future; and that they can save those much needed resources for the Legoland invasion. More cities now mean many more units later. The longer we both wait on ND to grow and build units, the longer and costlier it will be on both RP and GoW to get rid of ND and the further behind we will both be to Legoland.

Our power versus ND is great right now; let's not let that power soak up our resources, instead let's go use it to gain even more.

	10-04-2003 13:30									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The issue of attacking ND or not has been discussed many times in Spain, and it seems that will be cotinued to be discussed until the end of times.

Just to make it clear, I am completely against attack ND without a good reason (Valid ones: they are too powerful, we have no more room to expand, etc) but if it is finally decided I will support the kingdom rather to disturb it and commit to win the war.

However, until this happens or events come that make me change my mind I will state my opposition. At this time is better to continue our expansion while keeping high defenses. We are already at war, a war for land, to settle as many places as posible, and a cultural war, that is fought in the border. Going to a military war would make us more vulnerable and it's not clear which side GoW would join, because they have no loyalties.

However, roading the Iron to trade it with GoW (or even Vox if GS pillages the road to their colony) and make them less dependent on ND is a good idea. I support that.

	10-04-2003 14:36									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree with this concept and one other thing I would like to point out is that both ND and GoW get their UU with the same tech. But GoW's Rider is a far more powerful UU than the Ansar in my opinion.

	10-04-2003 19:23									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I have always been favorable to killing the heathens. Lets get them.

	11-04-2003 02:06									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

We are at a time where we make a fateful decision. Do we attack ND now or do we wait and hope that ND doesn't try to attack us with their UU. I say attack. We have all these swords. Lets use them now. If we don't it will be many years before we will be in such a position where we can launch an attack against ND. By that time, our glorious swords will be rusty old med. infantry. I would hope we can attack before they have pikemen though....

Btw I am entirely in favor of an allaince with Gow. We just have to convince them.....

	12-04-2003 04:42									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

For discussion:

REVISED:

DEFENSE PACT BETWEEN GLORY OF WAR AND SPAIN:

In the event that either party to this agreement is attacked by Neu Demoglyptica, the other party shall immediately declare war on Neu Demoglyptica and shall commit the majority of their military towards the conquest or destruction of Neu Demoglyptica.

Should Neu Demoglyptica settle in areas that are claimed by either party, and should the offended party declare war on Neu Demoglyptica, the other party to this pact must also declare war and shall commit the majority of their military towards the conquest or destruction of Neu Demoglyptica.

Once the war has begun the leaders of both nations shall meet, exchange combat and spy information, and attempt to cooperate as much as possible in the joint war effort.

Neither party may negotiate a separate peace with Neu Demoglpytica. Peace with Neu Demoglyptica must be agreed on by all parties.

This pact shall last for 100 turns.


Please post your thoughts on this pact.

--Togas

Last edited by Togas on 13-04-2003 at 01:59

	12-04-2003 04:55									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Could we add in there that neither party will attack the other and maybe something about dividing up the proceeds, in case of war, along some kind of line that runs East-West.

Could we also be sneaky enough to include that if one of us goes on the offensive, because ND is trying to settle either GoW's or RP's claimed lands?
I'm thinking of the "Lake Town" area. It's sort of like 'defending' your territory, right?

The pact should last 100 turns, and of course be extendable.