10-04-2003 22:13									#1
	Ecology: animals Inflate your Upload Space

obviously there'll be having Cavalry, and thus Horses.
you might also include War Elephants. perhaps even Mounted Moa or Elephant Bird warriors - if you play the Maori or Madagascans and don't slaughter them all.

imagine the economic effect the european slaughter of buffalo had on the Amerindians... or the Combat effect the introduction of horses had to the New World in general, ironically after their ancestors had evolved and been hunted to exctinction there.

the fame of Arabian Horses for speed may also be worth considering. the Incas or Eskimos weren't known for their chariots were they?! could the Inuit have War-Sleds?!

do all civs get Cavalry as standard? or do we locate different species? horses are going to be a big factor in certain points of history.

equally do all civs get rice and wheat and potatoes, or a regional variation? tobacco, sugar and cocoa? these are commodities which had big economic and politcal effects.

how different are biological resources from resources like iron or coal? or forest - some nations will be blessed with lots of forests, and others without, there lies a stimulation for trade, conquest and political manoeuvring.

any thoughts?

	10-04-2003 23:47									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

First, it is currently possible to restrict building cavalry to having found a resource (as in Dawn scenario). I'd like to have horses as resources, maybe also plants, but the point is game balance. Aztecs and incas stood no chance against Europeans because of their lack of wheat, cattle and horses. Would you like to play the Aztecs and be bashed without having a chance to evolve?
Did you check the ecology moel and threads?

	11-04-2003 01:01									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

i've looked at the ecology section, but not at any eco-threads.

yes, i take your point about picking an ELG with a disadvantage or two.

however,

if we're talking about a real scenario based on history, then the case is made, they should have what they had, and you should find different ways of fighting your opponents - and in such a scenario, that's going to be the challenge anyway, it's like a harder level of the game, and a chance to change history - the "what if" factor - which i think is a "crowd-puller" so to speak;

but, if we're talking about a full game on a map of Earth and a random world map [as opposed to a random smaller scenario map]

then the question is do we balance weaknesses and disadvantages with strengths, or not?

in a totally random world of decent size, then it is all down to chance what resources you get and how you respond to the situation you're in

- as in Civ, if you're on an island, then you can focus on developing naval technology and not worry so much about land units to begin with, etc...

and because you don't know what opportunities you've got, then it's even in a sense. you also have the advantage anyway of knowing what technologies or research is useful, which in the real historical world, people didn't always.

then,
if we're talking about an Earth map, [of the largest size possible i hope!] then knowing that horses will only exist on the Eurasian continent does present the issues you raise.

well, the disadvantage is an advantage as well - you are pretty likely to know where you are on the map pretty soon, and can work out where other parts of the world are.

unlike the Aztecs, you know that if you develop naval technology, and sail up the north american coast and down the east asian coast you can reach asia - and obtain horses that way through trade or by establishing a colony.

so you can get around it, and if you start off at 4000BC or whatever it is, then you DO have good chances to exploit.

	11-04-2003 05:02									#4
	Re: Ecology: animals Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by yellowdaddy do all civs get Cavalry as standard? or do we locate different species? horses are going to be a big factor in certain points of history. equally do all civs get rice and wheat and potatoes, or a regional variation? tobacco, sugar and cocoa? these are commodities which had big economic and politcal effects. how different are biological resources from resources like iron or coal? or forest - some nations will be blessed with lots of forests, and others without, there lies a stimulation for trade, conquest and political manoeuvring. any thoughts?

Hi YD, most of what you want is in our plans. Personally I think different species of horses is going too far. We were planning to have horses of one sort, and a Domestication tech to give how advanced the horse and other breeds are.

	11-04-2003 05:25									#5
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no i meant different species as in:

Horse,
Elephant,
Moa,

anything else ridable! like dogs or reindeer for warsleds!

same goes for Rice or Wheat or Potatoes...

Last edited by yellowdaddy on 11-04-2003 at 16:07

	11-07-2003 06:28									#6
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from what i last heard, yea there will be different creatures....but only if theres a reason for it....FE Camals, Elephants, Reindeer/Huskees are the only ones i can think of instead of horses because they can go places horses can't or can go there more easily.