11-04-2003 00:00									#1
	If the victim killed an actor in "Scare Tactics", is it homicide, self defence, mu Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Note: I think this is the WORST idea for a show ever.......

Suppose the "cabin" scenario from last week........an armed intruder breaks into your cabin......

Well YOU dont know its a show-you pull your glock out of your purse and shoot the intruder twice center mass(just like daddy taught you-he would be proud !).

Then- OMG WHY DID YOU DO THAT ITS A T.V. SHOW!!!!!!!!

Is intended 'victim' guilty of murder-is the scifi channel? Any legal prescedence for this-any lawyers here or others comment?

	11-04-2003 00:04									#2
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There's no way you would be charged in Texas.

	11-04-2003 00:05									#3
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If two states would sink into the sea and not be missed-it would be Texas and California.

	11-04-2003 00:07									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen If two states would sink into the sea and not be missed-it would be Texas and California.

what about Mississippi?

Texas and Cali > Mississippi

	11-04-2003 00:19									#5
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I'd vote for letting Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama all becoming newly-submerged areas. Add the Florida panhandle to that.

In response to the thread subject, I think in most places, unless the shooter could show that there was sufficient reason to use lethal force (a standard which I think is higher in most places than Texas), the shooter could be charged with a crime. Manslaughter would probably fit the bill, at worst second-degree murder.

	11-04-2003 00:20									#6
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If your friend tells you that your other friend has been murdered-then someone who appears to be wielding a weapon breaks into your residence- its NOT self defence if you shoot him????

	11-04-2003 00:23									#7
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I'm pretty sure if an "armed intruder" breaks into your house, you shouldn't have much trouble claiming self defense in any court of law in the US.

	11-04-2003 00:47									#8
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quote: I think in most places, unless the shooter could show that there was sufficient reason to use lethal force (a standard which I think is higher in most places than Texas), the shooter could be charged with a crime.

The OP said it was an 'armed intruder'. I'm sure you could prove self defense... as long as you didn't shoot him in the back or anything.

	11-04-2003 02:14									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I'd vote for letting Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama all becoming newly-submerged areas. Add the Florida panhandle to that. In response to the thread subject, I think in most places, unless the shooter could show that there was sufficient reason to use lethal force (a standard which I think is higher in most places than Texas), the shooter could be charged with a crime. Manslaughter would probably fit the bill, at worst second-degree murder.

In most states in the US (not sure about the ***** communist NE states), and intruder forcibly entering your house when you're there creates a presumption that the intruder has the intent to harm you. In your own home, you're not required to ascertain the threat level posed by an intruder.

{turns on lights}
"Excuse me, Mr. Burglar, are you armed and dangerous, or planning on doing anything nasty to me or my kids?"

"Why, no, of course not, go back to sleep"

"Oh, OK. Mind if I call the police first?"



When in doubt, wipe 'em out.

	11-04-2003 02:16									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'm sure you could prove self defense... as long as you didn't shoot him in the back or anything.

I prefer to administer IQ tests.

	11-04-2003 02:21									#11
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Well as long as the IQ test isn't done when he is obviously trying to run away... .

	11-04-2003 02:23									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I'd vote for letting Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama all becoming newly-submerged areas. Add the Florida panhandle to that. In response to the thread subject, I think in most places, unless the shooter could show that there was sufficient reason to use lethal force (a standard which I think is higher in most places than Texas), the shooter could be charged with a crime. Manslaughter would probably fit the bill, at worst second-degree murder.

I'd add Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, West Virginia, most of Georgia, the Carolinas, Minnesota, most of Virginia, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, Nebraska, Kansas, Idaho, Utah, Montana, and most of Wyoming.

	11-04-2003 02:25									#13
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quote: In response to the thread subject, I think in most places, unless the shooter could show that there was sufficient reason to use lethal force (a standard which I think is higher in most places than Texas), the shooter could be charged with a crime. Manslaughter would probably fit the bill, at worst second-degree murder.

Manslaughter would be the worst. For 2nd Degree Murder (or any Murder charge) willful intent needs to be present to get an indictment in even the most strict courts.

	11-04-2003 02:27									#14
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That's ok, Sava, I'd wipe out New York, most of Pennsylvania, Vermont, Maine, northern New Jersey, California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii and of course Chicago .

	11-04-2003 02:29									#15
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quote: That's ok, Sava, I'd wipe out New York, most of Pennsylvania, Vermont, Maine, northern New Jersey, California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii and of course Chicago .

If it makes you feel any better, I'd agree with Washington, Oregon, NJ, and most of Penn. Actually, I just want the people to sink into the ocean. I got no beef with the land.

	11-04-2003 02:29									#16
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quote: Manslaughter would be the worst.

And you'd probably need a dumb lawyer to get that... or you have to be an idiot and shoot the guy in the back as he's trying to run away (some places might make that murder).

	11-04-2003 02:31									#17
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quote: And you'd probably need a dumb lawyer to get that... or you have to be an idiot and shoot the guy in the back as he's trying to run away (some places might make that murder).

I agree. But if the shooter was poor, non-white, and was strong-armed by police, he/she would probably get the death penalty.

	11-04-2003 02:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well as long as the IQ test isn't done when he is obviously trying to run away... .

Once he's out the door, then he's not my problem. Worst case is if you shoot him in the back, then go kick him over and shoot him from the front, too. Good hollowpoints or glasers won't fully penetrate, and without exit wounds, it's pretty hard to tell what came first.

"Gee, in all the confusion I kept firing until he went down. I was just so scared for my little kid's safety. I guess he must have spun around."

	11-04-2003 02:41									#19
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quote: I agree. But if the shooter was poor, non-white, and was strong-armed by police, he/she would probably get the death penalty.

Doubtful.

	11-04-2003 03:02									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Once he's out the door, then he's not my problem. Worst case is if you shoot him in the back, then go kick him over and shoot him from the front, too. Good hollowpoints or glasers won't fully penetrate, and without exit wounds, it's pretty hard to tell what came first. "Gee, in all the confusion I kept firing until he went down. I was just so scared for my little kid's safety. I guess he must have spun around."

Hmmm... sounds like you have already thought it all out

But I agree... "It was dark, I saw the gun, and I just started firing... you know, had to protect my wife and kids"

Not a jury in America would convict you...

	11-04-2003 03:13									#21
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quote: Worst case is if you shoot him in the back, then go kick him over and shoot him from the front, too. Good hollowpoints or glasers won't fully penetrate, and without exit wounds, it's pretty hard to tell what came first.

quote: Not a jury in America would convict you...

Well maybe if you were Osama bin Laden, you may get a conviction, but even then the jury might let him off .

	11-04-2003 03:16									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Once he's out the door, then he's not my problem. Worst case is if you shoot him in the back, then go kick him over and shoot him from the front, too. Good hollowpoints or glasers won't fully penetrate, and without exit wounds, it's pretty hard to tell what came first. "Gee, in all the confusion I kept firing until he went down. I was just so scared for my little kid's safety. I guess he must have spun around."

You obviously don't watch forensic files. They would be able to tell that the second shot was from closer range. blood splatter from you rolling him over would also let them know you rolled him over.

You would be accused of manslaughter at least.

ACK!

	11-04-2003 03:19									#23
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Oh, I saw a thing on "Celebrity Justice"(don't ask) about a lady that is sueing Scare Tactics because they scared her so bad.

It sounded silly at first:

She was scared by a fake alien that jumped out of the bushes and against her car window.

But, the fact that she didn't know she was on a show makes me think she has a decent case.

She is also going to counseling because of the incident.

ACK!

	11-04-2003 03:22									#24
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Tuberski is right there... you'd probably stand a better chance being honest and shooting the intruder on sight. if you snuck uo in him and his back was towards you and his weapon was in his hand, i doubt a jury would convict you.

	11-04-2003 04:47									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Hmmm... sounds like you have already thought it all out

Not for me. I'm a first shot to the forehead sort of guy.

(That's what I meant by the IQ test - see if he has any brains. )


Tuberski - shoot him through a pillow for the follow up shots. Then stuff it in the back of the linen closet, or someplace NOT near the trash or outside. That'll take care of the powder residue and muzzle flash burn problem (or you can prop him up and shoot from about the same distance as the original shots.)

Blood spatter could be problematic, but you can always roll him around a bit, saying you wanted to see if he had a gun, so you moved him, and then you wanted to see if he was alive, cuz you felt sooooooooo bad etc. and wondered if you should do CPR or call an ambulance, etc. etc.

Then you move a coupla pieces of furniture around, throw a blanket on him (so the kids don't see if they come downstairs), and generally wander about like a distraught idiot ****ing up the crime scene beyond any use. "Oh, gee, you mean I shouldn't have done all that? I didn't know... "



Nobody's gonna bother doing detailed forensics on a case involving a breakin by some scumbag. Your estranged multimillionaire husband you just took out a multi-million life policy on, while you booked a vacation cruise with your boyfriend, yeah, a scumbag burglar, no. Crime scene exams will be superficial too, once it's established this is some random *******, and not the neighbor who accused you of cheating at poker last week.

	11-04-2003 05:00									#26
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An individual who did this could claim self-defense as far as the shooting is concerned, though if they did it in a state without conceealed weapons laws, they could get charged with a gun violantion.

The producers of the show would probalby be sued by the family of the actor shot, and they could be charged with some criminal offense, for creating a situation in which the risk of somehting happening was high, though if they can claim the person they intended to scare should not have been armed, they might bet off.

	11-04-2003 06:52									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Once he's out the door, then he's not my problem. Worst case is if you shoot him in the back, then go kick him over and shoot him from the front, too. Good hollowpoints or glasers won't fully penetrate, and without exit wounds, it's pretty hard to tell what came first.

Except that now there's a blood stain on the floor where you've rolled him on his back...

	11-04-2003 06:54									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I'd vote for letting Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama all becoming newly-submerged areas. Add the Florida panhandle to that. In response to the thread subject, I think in most places, unless the shooter could show that there was sufficient reason to use lethal force (a standard which I think is higher in most places than Texas), the shooter could be charged with a crime. Manslaughter would probably fit the bill, at worst second-degree murder.

Hey, in Louisiana and Florida you can shoot camera weilding foreigners who stray onto your property without fear of reprisal by the state.

	11-04-2003 06:54									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski You obviously don't watch forensic files. They would be able to tell that the second shot was from closer range. blood splatter from you rolling him over would also let them know you rolled him over. You would be accused of manslaughter at least. ACK!

Powder burns are only viable out to 4-5 feet IIRC. Get a ladder and shoot him from there, though. Don't just shoot him from ten feet back; the angle will be all wrong...

	11-04-2003 06:56									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Hey, in Louisiana and Florida you can shoot camera weilding foreigners who stray onto your property without fear of reprisal by the state.

Hey, doc: if a PPD test is going to react, when (how long would it take) would you see the first signs? What does a positive reaction look like (i.e. what is "10 mm induration")?