11-04-2003 15:27									#1
	Contested lands Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We need to clarify our opinion about the lands to our NorthEast which are (at least to some point) contested with Neu Demogyptia. It is important that we decide soon because if we want to run for them we have to do it right at this moment, because ND is probably preparing settler to colonize these lands.

The question is, do we want these lands even if that risks an early war or do we leave the lands to ND and if we do, to which degree?

I personally would like to get lake city and the city to its East. Anyway, I recognize that these two cities would be difficult to defend at this time and that sacrifying that valley to ND would buy us more time to settle the rich lands on the south and bontinue expanding.

But we should clearly draw the line to prevent them from continuing south, and that's why I would recommend to continue the seting of the border founding cities to the East of Toledo, drawing a line from coast to coast.

	11-04-2003 20:22									#2
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As an addendum to the issue of the lands to our north and northeast, it is important to note from the latest Demographics screenshot that we are dead last in shield production (mfg. goods); that even puts us behind Vox

As much as I want to REX southward, the disparity between our rank in other areas and this one is noteable because of the location of our capital with respect to the rest of Espania and the shape of the empire overall; its just corrupting all our shield production down the drain.

We could handle this by over-compensating with more mines or by building more cities close to Madrid. Either way though, it is a serious issue and worth adding to the discussion.

	11-04-2003 21:45									#3
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If we decide to settle the lake city, we still have 2 turns to switch the Toledo production from Worker to Settler... maybe it could be worth, while Madrid could produce more spears and horses to defend the new city.

On the other side, if Zaragoza does continue to produce Swordmen, we will have a punch force ready to go towards the ND core cities in case of ND declaring war to us.

	12-04-2003 01:55									#4
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Our shield production is so piss pore because we spread our cities so far out from our capitol. We will just have to deal with it.

We should toss one sacrifical city just north of the jungle so thay cannot sneak through, otherwise let them take what they can while we settle the south.

	12-04-2003 02:48									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The question that needs to be asked is: Do we need to build in the north valley? The longer we leave our valuable rear expansions sites alone, the longer we invite some daring team to settle there and stir up trouble.

--Togas

	12-04-2003 02:57									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Togas The question that needs to be asked is: Do we need to build in the north valley? The longer we leave our valuable rear expansions sites alone, the longer we invite some daring team to settle there and stir up trouble. --Togas

Answer: No.

We invite disaster with any plans that further delay the tapping of the southern luxuries. Those luxuries are going to make a big productivity difference in all our cities as they grow larger. We must settle and connect them asap.

	12-04-2003 03:17									#7
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Answer: No. We invite disaster with any plans that further delay the tapping of the southern luxuries. Those luxuries are going to make a big productivity difference in all our cities as they grow larger. We must settle and connect them asap.

Concurred.

	12-04-2003 05:08									#8
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I am torn between the two. I would limit to limit ND's growth but I wouldn't want to sacrafice our own at the same time. I think we need a city or two closer to our Capitol for now, then settle the contested Valley and near the ivory next.

	12-04-2003 06:35									#9
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We need a City Northeast of Madrid. We do not want Madrid to be a border city for ever.

	14-04-2003 17:14									#10
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Indeed. *cough* We should also try to make sure that ND *cough* doesnt get hold of the gemstones. They dont have any in their realm and if we make sure that they dont get any, then we have another luxury to trade them, or not... *cough**cough*

	14-04-2003 23:47									#11
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I think that a city near the lake would be a good thing in regard of our possible attack against ND. If we settle there, our Horsemen could be ready to penetrate in the ND territory near their core cities. Our manoeuvers could be done out of the ND eyes.

On the other hand, a city in that valley will be very difficult to defend, since we don't have roads nor fortifications in that area.

If we let ND settle there our invasion plans should be completely revised.

It's difficult to say what's the best choice. Maybe we should concentrate first on the settlements of the south of the continent and at the north of Madrid. There are some hills and mountains which would be good to found strong military border cities. I tend to do this choice.

	15-04-2003 00:21									#12
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That's an interesting idea, astrologix, and for the first time I'm not completely dismissing the concept of the lake city... We could build a military city up there, to use as a staging area. Rush the barracks and send a force that could make attacks at central or northern ND cities. I like it. We would have to be prepared to lose the city though.

I'd love to see a plan that encompassed settling our remaining luxury sites and the lake city simultaneously, and timed so that we could launch an offensive strike from the south and the east of ND almost immediately thereafter.