11-04-2003 23:28									#1
	Apple in talks to buy Universal Music Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/04/11/music/

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-...ome%2Dheadlines

This isn't a Mac specific issue, so it is ripe for OT.

I think this might be the beginning of the end for both the record industry as we know it and for file sharing.

If they do charge 10 cents for a song then I think that is well worth the price for reliable and fast downloads. Presumably the distribution costs would be quite cheap and as long as they let you own the song rather than rent it, that's fine by me. And given Apple's penchant for giving away excellent software for free I'm guessing that this will be an attractive prospect to music lovers like me.

The record industry needs to realise that it is dead.

	11-04-2003 23:36									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If it works, it'll be great!

	12-04-2003 00:53									#3
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Apple is eviller than Microsoft. It is a vertical monopolist that supplies both the hardware and the software.

If their market share ever goes above 40%, the DOJ is going to land hard on them.

	12-04-2003 01:09									#4
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Apple is eviller than Microsoft. It is a vertical monopolist that supplies both the hardware and the software. If their market share ever goes above 40%, the DOJ is going to land hard on them.

That won't happen. Apple only really competes in the home, education and professional graphics markets. To call it a monopoly is stretching the use of the term. Apple has a monopoly over its own products. but, hey, pretty much every company has a monopoly in that sense. People buy Apple products so that they can reap the benefits of using a computer. One doesn't have to buy Apple products to reap this benefit. Dell, HP and Gateway sell computers too and have significant market share. Windows has a virtual monopoly on OS software and MS has engaged in anti-competitive practices because of it. The only anti-competitive practice Apple ever engaged in was stopping Apple clones, which it needed to do or it would have gone out of business (as would the clone makers without the OS software) .

If Apple did by some miracle increase its share to 40% and acted like MS then I would certainly support the DOJ getting involved.

	12-04-2003 01:13									#5
	Re: Apple in talks to buy Universal Music Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Agathon And given Apple's penchant for giving away excellent software for free

LOL

If by "free" you mean you pay ridiculous amounts of money for your computer and then they offer free tools initially to you only to charge for them later (*cough* iTools), then sure...

	12-04-2003 01:16									#6
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Itools is a joke, Asher, only about 5% of mac users would and are using it. We hate it as much as you do. iTools is not indicative of Apple's software strategy as a whole.

Hey, every company makes mistakes. Apple's biggest was thinking that the competition was IBM when it was microsoft.

	12-04-2003 01:16									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon That won't happen. Apple only really competes in the home, education and professional graphics markets.

It's interesting you mention those, because those marks are hurting for Apple as well.

Hell, even Adobe recommends PCs over Macs now for using Adobe products...

	12-04-2003 01:18									#8
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Itools is a joke, Asher, only about 5% of mac users would and are using it. We hate it as much as you do. iTools is not indicative of Apple's software strategy as a whole.

Still, even QuickTime *****es at me to pay them money for Pro...

And what MS released as a Service Pack, Apple releases as a new OS and charges you $100+ for it...

quote: Hey, every company makes mistakes. Apple's biggest was thinking that the competition was IBM when it was microsoft.

No, Apple's mistakes are as follows:
1) Proprietary hardware
2) Overpriced
3) Not understanding they have to be competitive to gain marketshare

	12-04-2003 01:22									#9
	Tired of ads?

Apple didn't release a service pack, they released a revision to OS X that made it significantly faster and, more importantly, tons more compatible with PC networks. In addition, it provided many new upgrades to other softwares, etc. Everyone agrees that it was well worth the cash.

Plus, apple doesn't put in as much pirate protection as microsoft does.

	12-04-2003 01:24									#10
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Apple didn't release a service pack, they released a revision to OS X that made it significantly faster and, more importantly, tons more compatible with PC networks. In addition, it provided many new upgrades to other softwares, etc. Everyone agrees that it was well worth the cash.

The only people that agree with it are the people who continually subjecting themselves to Apple's pocketbooks. Everyone else looks over in that direction and rolls their eyes, while the Apple fans jump for joy and throw extra money at the Steve Jobs Jet Fund.

quote: Plus, apple doesn't put in as much pirate protection as microsoft does.

That's because you can't buy Apple hardware without the OS to begin with...

	12-04-2003 01:26									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

yeah well I pirated jaguar wicked easily, so whatever...

	12-04-2003 01:28									#12
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 yeah well I pirated jaguar wicked easily, so whatever...

And it's sooo difficult to pirate XP.

	12-04-2003 01:32									#13
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Apple RULZ, PCs DROOLZ! (That's what this thread is turning into, and rightly so, I might add.)

Gatekeeper

	12-04-2003 02:29									#14
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quote: The only anti-competitive practice Apple ever engaged in was stopping Apple clones, which it needed to do or it would have gone out of business (as would the clone makers without the OS software) .

Um... that's pretty anti-competitive. Could you imagine IBM stomping out IBM clones? There would be no HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. That isn't anti-competitive?

	12-04-2003 02:47									#15
	Remove this text

quote: A better analogy is if Microsoft stopped selling windows to any other computer manufacturer, and started making computers itself.

I'm sure Agathon would love that .

	12-04-2003 03:24									#16
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quote: That's because you can't buy Apple hardware without the OS to begin with...

Since when can you buy a major manufacturer's PC without Windows?

	12-04-2003 04:49									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Timexwatch Since when can you buy a major manufacturer's PC without Windows?

The point is you don't have to buy from a major manufacturer. You always have the option of building it yourself, buying it from a local vendor, etc.

	12-04-2003 05:18									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Timexwatch--

actually, these days dell is allowing system administratorrs the option of buying desktop optiplexes with linux preinstalled, or without any os preinstalled.

this is, however, only for large purchases, but it's a start.

	12-04-2003 05:24									#19
	Suffering from ads?

"The assent of conscience, the pleasant feeling of 'at peace with oneself,' is of the same order as the please of the artist in his work -- it proves nothing at all."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

	12-04-2003 11:55									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Um... that's pretty anti-competitive. Could you imagine IBM stomping out IBM clones? There would be no HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. That isn't anti-competitive?

That's the single biggest mistake Apple has ever made. It had a chance to expand market share, but they wasted it.

These stupid execs never realised that Apple is not a hardware company, it is a software company.

	12-04-2003 20:20									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Hell, even Adobe recommends PCs over Macs now for using Adobe products...

Do they? I haven't been following the whole thing after "Adobe Says PCs Are Preferred", but if that's what you're referring to, the whole thing was a couple of speed tests and a URL with the word "pcpreferred" in it. And even that has disappeared by now. Find me an official statement from Adobe and I'll be convinced.

	12-04-2003 22:57									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Asher The point is you don't have to buy from a major manufacturer. You always have the option of building it yourself, buying it from a local vendor, etc.

So that would be a "No"?

	12-04-2003 23:23									#23
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Nietzsche is such a tool.

	12-04-2003 23:26									#24
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I would pay, if I had a job.

10c is actually very reasonable (!), as long as there is a database of songs downloaded by me, that I wouldn't have to pay again to download it. HD crashes and such.

	12-04-2003 23:33									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Timexwatch: Dunno about you, but I got my current computer naked. Granted, I did also choose most of the components and did even entertain the thought of building the computer myself... but I'd say that unless you're talking about laptops, a person who doesn't want to have Windows on his/her computer can get one without it.

	13-04-2003 00:14									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Ari Rahikkala I got my current computer naked.

Eww. Too much information, man!

I don't want bloody pay-for files, cheap or otherwise, and I don't want the music industry to cut out the middle man. Save the Small, Independent Record Shops!

	13-04-2003 00:24									#27
	Got spare money?

That's only because you want to live like you were in High Fidelity. Cutting out the middle-man is in the artists' best interests. I say it's time for ALL record stores to go, save for vinyls for the hardest of the hardcore.

	13-04-2003 01:07									#28
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I would pay as well, if any mainstream music were to ever interest me.

	13-04-2003 01:23									#29
	Put an end to popups!

Seriously, I would pay 10¢ to download music - for that price I'd pay like a dollar fifty for some albums that I've always wanted to have!

	13-04-2003 14:53									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

No, no, no. Vinyl shops are for collectors and other lesser beings. A good, non-vinyl-oriented independent is a haven for browsing, for finding new stuff, for atmosphere and for a good day out. Among the only real old-fashioned stores left in these days of big chains and conformity.

Actually, to be honest, I'm not really worried. This is a bit like those people claiming e-books would kill off bookstores... an industry now flourishing more than ever. I think the same is happening to the independent record stores- it's lifestyle branding without the brand, helped rather than hindered by the fact that people are able to preview stuff over the net.

Also, in this country at least (Sweden) small record companies have regained the impetus thanks partially to the internet, and the only distribution channel flexible enough to both take in the stuff that the big stores will only get tomorrow and get them out quickly to the potential customers are Independents. There are certainly many more small record shops in Stockholm now than there were five years ago...