12-04-2003 02:01									#1
	Interesting Terraforming Method (?) Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I was just playing some SMAC/X, when a thought struck me. Can an exploding Scout Patrol unit clear improvements? And if improvements, why not fungus?

	12-04-2003 02:52									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've never had a self-destructing unit actually hurt anything, unless it had a Fusion reactor or higher.

	12-04-2003 06:00									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I don't think that works. you can terraform with fungal/tectonic missiles and even planet busters though.

	12-04-2003 18:34									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

AFAIK Patashu is correct. SMAC(X) is my favorite game because of all the terraforming options you have. As a builder I love to change the land and maximize what I can get from it.

	12-04-2003 22:56									#5
	Got spare money?

Usually with terraforming I just stuck mines on all rocky squares then set all formers on fully automate. Now though i'm going absolutely crazy starting boreholes everywhere possible and just filling the other squares with condensors or forests, if i get the WP poor planet is screaming for mercy

	12-04-2003 23:25									#6
	Re: Interesting Terraforming Method (?) Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Uchuu-kun[SM42] asked: I was just playing some SMAC/X, when a thought struck me. Can an exploding Scout Patrol unit clear improvements? And if improvements, why not fungus?

Self-destruct affects only units, not terrain. Not being very efficient, it's best used against pre-softened units (artillery's redemption). As noted by Alinestra Covelia: it does require higher reactors, and I, too, have never had a self-destructed unit damage anything except itself.

	12-04-2003 23:56									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Neither have I, had any luck with self destruct units.

	13-04-2003 03:31									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Won't artillery remove improvements though?

	13-04-2003 03:38									#9
	Got spare money?

Artillery will remove man-made terraforming improvements, as will air-strikes, but shelling fungus just increases the likelihood that a mindworm will emerge, angry and looking for trouble. Only formers can clear fungus, or the occasional forest expansion.

	13-04-2003 04:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Too bad you can't have artillary(ranged) formers...dunno how they'd work though.

	13-04-2003 07:19									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Artillery affects improvements only when there is no unit in the space.
I discovered this when naval-bombarding an improved coastal space from the second sea square out. I knew the square had been improved from previous investigation, but could not now "see into" the square.
Instead of destroying the improvement as I intended, my artillery damaged units which had moved in during interim turns while my ship was not adjacent.

	13-04-2003 09:49									#12
	Put an end to popups!

I suppose there could be a couple of uses for a terraformer who could make changes at range, but mostly I'd rather have 2 cheap formers than 1 pricey one, at least until I get Super Fusion formers.

	14-04-2003 14:34									#13
	Re: Re: Interesting Terraforming Method (?) Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by gwillybj Self-destruct affects only units, not terrain. Not being very efficient, it's best used against pre-softened units (artillery's redemption). As noted by Alinestra Covelia: it does require higher reactors, and I, too, have never had a self-destructed unit damage anything except itself.

There was a thread here some month ago about self-destruction damage (or was it at CGN?).

Strictly speacking, "not efficient", "best use", "require higher reactors", are just (legitimate) personal preferences or opinions.

Offhand, I think to recall that the damage inflicted was

Weapon*Reactor/2 hitpoints

That is, a self-destructing Fission Impact unit would cause 2 hitpoints damage, a Missile unit 3 HP damage, a Chaos one 4 HP, a FusionLaser one 5 HP.
That is, you'd need 2 10-weaponed units to inflcit 10HP damage. Or 2 Missile and 1 Chaos.
Mind tho, that damage is applied to EVERY SINGLE UNIT adjacent to the kamikaze and outside a base, even stacked, enemy or *friendly* (yes, you'll damage your own adjacent units too!). And regarldess to armor, morale, or any combat modifier.
In crowded places, where your attacker would have good chances to be killed after reatliation anyway, this can be eventually *more* efficient than normal attack. Think of an energy park for instance...
___

It's possible to get Organic SuperLubricants (Weapon 10) before Fusion reactors, but even then Fusion shouldn't be far away neither.

According to the above formula, with Fusion Reactor the damage would be HP equal to the kamikaze weapon.
That is, with a 10-1-x*2 (or with two Gatling Fusion units) you can kill every adjacent Fission unit (of course if enemy has Fusion reactor too they'll have more HP to be consumed before dying)....

	14-04-2003 14:44									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

PS:
a scout patrol (or any unit with weapon=1), that is a 1-x-x*1, would inflict 1*1/2=0.5 HP self-destruct damage, rounded down to.... ZERO

	14-04-2003 18:06									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Mario,

You likely remmeber the CGN topic thread I started on self destruct units. I don't think we discussed it much here but I could be mistaken.

An add and/or clarification to Mario's points. Fusion Laser fusion reactor unit self destructs are enoughto destroy all adjacent fission units and ALL NATIVES as well as Native life is considered fission reactor. What this means is that if you have a significant fungal bloom from excessive mineral production and are about to be worm raped. A simple fusion laser (or better) fusion reactor (or better) needlejet, drop unit, chopper ,etc. can be rushed to the scene and detonated to prevent worm rape of your base.

The formula he describes appears to be correct. What's more all fractions appear to round down.

Being swarmed by noodles and choppers and you don't want to make SAM units, a self destruct(s) might be the ticket.

	14-04-2003 20:03									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

self-destruct was discussed in detail at CGN . It is such a powerful tactic when facing a large stack of attackers.

	15-04-2003 12:10									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe An add and/or clarification to Mario's points. Fusion Laser fusion reactor unit self destructs are enoughto destroy all adjacent fission units and ALL NATIVES as well as Native life is considered fission reactor. What this means is that if you have a significant fungal bloom from excessive mineral production and are about to be worm raped. A simple fusion laser (or better) fusion reactor (or better) needlejet, drop unit, chopper ,etc. can be rushed to the scene and detonated to prevent worm rape of your base.

That's great.

Has life stage been factored in, i.e., would this self-destruction kill off demon boils as well?

	15-04-2003 13:41									#18
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Thanks Ogie

Diva, life-stage for natives (as well as morale for conventionals) influences the strength, not the health (or "constitution" ) of a unit.
That is, it's a modifier factored when you determine your unit attack/defense strength (determining in turn the % chance to inflict/parry 1 HP in each single combat blow).
But it has no influence on the unit HitPoints: a Fission or Native unit will always have 10 HP when 100% healthy, regardless of eventually being Elite/Demon.

As I said, self-destruct damage is directly subtracted form the victim's HP, without any modifier or influence (no morale, armor, abilities, terrain...), without any possbilitly of countering it in any way (except by having "more life" i.e. higher Reactor).

In this regard, against a kamikaze, a humble Fusion Patrol (1-1-1*2) has twice the resistance of the best Fission unit you could possibily imagine (20HP vs 10HP)

	16-04-2003 11:24									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

"No need to thank us Madame. It's just another day in the life of The Humble Fusion Patrol."

	16-04-2003 18:37									#20
	Suffering from ads?

Man, I wish I knew this before I wrote Joe. As it is, I think a Chaos Fusion needlejet would do enough damage but all the same it's better to know ahead of time.