24-09-2003 21:43									#451
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen and my original post was: methinks it's the "units are disappearing" bug

Heh. You're a funny guy, MZ. A real funny guy.

Unless the RNG really ****ed us, that battle *had* to hurt ND/GoW too. The irritating part is that, due to the way PBEM works, we don't know how badly it hurt you guys... we can only count units and wager educated guesses.

That's one of the things that annoys me most about the PBEM format, actually.

-Arrian

p.s. At least we've finally had a fairly significant battle.

	24-09-2003 21:48									#452
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian The irritating part is that, due to the way PBEM works, we don't know how badly it hurt you guys... we can only count units and wager educated guesses. That's one of the things that annoys me most about the PBEM format, actually.

That is something I agree with. A replay capability (or at least a log) for PBEM games is in the top 5 wishes of mine for a future civ3 patch/expansion pack. Not that I have too many hopes for it.

	24-09-2003 21:56									#453
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I'd love that.

-Arrian

	24-09-2003 22:04									#454
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian The irritating part is that, due to the way PBEM works, we don't know how badly it hurt you guys... we can only count units and wager educated guesses. That's one of the things that annoys me most about the PBEM format, actually.

That's realistic though, especially for this time frame. You don't know how many troops the enemy has, all you see is the results and the info you've gleaning from scouting reports.

Personally, I like the educated guessing and not having 100% of the knowledge of the enemy.

quote: Originally posted by Arrian p.s. At least we've finally had a fairly significant battle.

Significant? There were less than 20 units on either side. That's less than a tenth of your forces in the immediate area, unless we've greatly underestimated your strength.

	24-09-2003 22:41									#455
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quote: Significant? There were less than 20 units on either side. That's less than a tenth of your forces in the immediate area, unless we've greatly underestimated your strength.

Yes...we were guessing you have 200 units in the area.

Point is, it was a single battle, not the war. I don't consider anything significant till it drives Storm Chickens back into the sea.

As for the hidden nature of the combats, I could go either way on that. There is nothing preventing us from sharing that information, though, if both parties were to agree... That would be one fun chat. GS attacks and reports in a chat, passes to ND who attacks and reports, passes to GoW...ect. Cheering and trash talking could be fun in such a chat.

	24-09-2003 22:51									#456
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quote: Significant? There were less than 20 units on either side.

We both know how many units GS lost in that battle (11 combat units, for the curious). I can figure out the minimum number of ND/GoW units necessary to kill them (11), and it is likely (again, unless the RNG ****ed us) that it took more than that, since our units were on a hill, fortified, with cat support. Given that, the total units (not counting the cats) involved in the battle were, at a minimum, 22, but probably 25 or more.

If you choose to call the battle insignificant, ok. But it meets my definition of a decent sized battle. We're on a standard map, the unit counts just aren't that high.

And while I'd agree that it's "realistic" not to know exactly what occurred in a battle, you *do* get that exact info in SP mode, so the lack of it here is annoying.

-Arrian

	24-09-2003 22:52									#457
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Oooh... I kinda like the sharing of combat info idea. Dunno what the rest of the team would say, but I definitely like it!

-Arrian

	24-09-2003 22:57									#458
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I agree with Arrian completely. I just hate to open a PBEM and suddenly see units gone and don't know how they were "goned". There should be a way for the game to record other player's actions and show them on your turn but I was told that would imply a pretty hefty re-code and wouldn't be practical.

So, we'll have to live with it

Anyway, I salute the fallen troops of GoW and ND who are now in paradise with 72 virgins, and also those of our brave rival who are now in paradise with 72... chickens? (don't know much about stormian religion).

(in other words good fight, war is getting interesting)

	24-09-2003 23:01									#459
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Oooh... I kinda like the sharing of combat info idea. Dunno what the rest of the team would say, but I definitely like it! -Arrian

I dunno, perhaps sensitive info would not want to be revealed.

What I would REALLY love though is once the war is over that we get together and chat, not as GoW or GS but as Aggie, MZ, Arrian, nye, etc. and just talk about the whole war.

	24-09-2003 23:05									#460
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I agree with Arrian completely. I just hate to open a PBEM and suddenly see units gone and don't know how they were "goned". There should be a way for the game to record other player's actions and show them on your turn but I was told that would imply a pretty hefty re-code and wouldn't be practical. So, we'll have to live with it Anyway, I salute the fallen troops of GoW and ND who are now in paradise with 72 virgins, and also those of our brave rival who are now in paradise with 72... chickens? (don't know much about stormian religion). (in other words good fight, war is getting interesting)

Yeah, we will most likely just have to live with it.

I too salute the fallen soldiers of our enemies (though I know not how many have fallen).

As to our religion... I think our guys might get a big donut when the get to heaven. Maybe a BBQ'd chicken wing too. *shrugs*

I too, look forward to discussing this after it's over, like we did with the GS-Vox war. It's great to see the other side's train of thought.

-Arrian

	24-09-2003 23:25									#461
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian It's great to see the other side's train of thought. -Arrian

We don't have trains yet, thats still 2-3 tech researches away.................

	24-09-2003 23:29									#462
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Shaddup, Wormtongue.

-Arrian

	24-09-2003 23:37									#463
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian As to our religion... I think our guys might get a big donut when the get to heaven. Maybe a BBQ'd chicken wing too. *shrugs* -Arrian

Well, our boys get to have bearded women virgins. Frankly, I'd take the BBQ myself

	25-09-2003 00:24									#464
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Well, our boys get to have bearded women virgins. Frankly, I'd take the BBQ myself

Your confused its Roleplay who gets bearded women virgins. Our boys have to settle for the local bearded women during our occupation of Roleplay towns. I don't think they will be finding any virgins though..............

	25-09-2003 01:19									#465
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I would personally welcome sharing all info, but can see where some would object to such things. We would have to get 4 teams at present to agree to that, I don't see that happening, really.

I don't plan on calling it 'minor' in my story. Nor would I call it 'major'. It is the first real BATTLE, though.

	25-09-2003 02:30									#466
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I support the sharing of combat information. Trip should be the one to report it though. Just dry, unbiased numbers; maybe even a before and after screen shot.

	25-09-2003 02:41									#467
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Ahh, to see what the EYE sees. *assumes whistful posture*

-Arrian

	25-09-2003 02:46									#468
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Teams should set up polls on this issue... if everyone agrees then I will make a report on all battles which occur every turn.

	25-09-2003 02:48									#469
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I think we need a new thread for this part. I too would be interested in knowing the loses involved in such battles(though I do KNOW for this one,). But also since we have this current system we have been playing under, I don't see an effective way to change it.

Perhaps we could have a reporter, say trip since he is neutral, write a broad story as if he was a third party reporter. Perhaps the side that saw all would have to approve it, so no classified info would leak out. Similiar to being a pool reporter. I wouldn't want a "Geraldo incident" though.

Or perhaps this report could come from somebody on that side even, for example like unortho for us. We all agree that his stories are entertaining and factually correct.( an extremely rare combination). As in his report of our rush south, the report might come later as to not give away anything that isn't commonly known.

Just some ideas to get information out and also to keep military secrecy intact.

Also a request to Gs, for roleplay purposes, could you tell us where the units that fought so fearlessly and valiantly came from. that way when stories are made they can be given proper credit.

Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 25-09-2003 at 02:58

	25-09-2003 04:01									#470
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That kind of takes away an element of suprise. The whole kill their scout and hope they don't notice effect.........

	25-09-2003 05:05									#471
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Perhaps the compromise would be only a report of those directly involved in combat. i.e., even if 4 out of 10 knights in a stack attack 2 med. inf. and win, the report would only have to say that 4 knights were invovled in combat. That gives some idea of the forces, but still maintains the suprise element.

	26-09-2003 13:02									#472
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Has GoW gone over the 24 hour period? Hmm? Perhaps things are not so well in the garden of evil!

	26-09-2003 15:42									#473
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Has GoW gone over the 24 hour period? Hmm? Perhaps things are not so well in the garden of evil!

We're just fine, however I think the hostilities in the forum justify a bit of slow down so that we can all remain civil. Perhaps we should all take a "time out" for a few turns to remember this is a game.

	26-09-2003 15:45									#474
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I vote we string GF up from the nearest tree as a reminder of what happens to those who exceed the time limit in this game

	26-09-2003 18:09									#475
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Has GoW gone over the 24 hour period? Hmm? Perhaps things are not so well in the garden of evil!

so you mean that we play longer when things go bad?

	26-09-2003 18:41									#476
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quote: Originally posted by vulture I vote we string GF up from the nearest tree as a reminder of what happens to those who exceed the time limit in this game

I vote we make the "string em up" rule retroactive so that all of GS is already strung up and there's no one left to propose they do it to me...............

Although I actually think the delay is due to another team not responding in a timely manner to an offer we sent them...........

	07-10-2003 03:16									#477
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So, uh, is that bug GoW mentioned solved?

	07-10-2003 04:31									#478
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nope

	07-10-2003 05:38									#479
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 nope

well, uh, are you going to let us know what the problem is, one of us might know how to solve it or have some ideas, or is it some super secret problem that would reveal operational plans of Gow/nd?

	07-10-2003 08:48									#480
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We'll the problem is that the bug involves movement of units and so it almost has to be solved by nd or GOW. If somebody from a neutral team is interested they could pm me(they just have to not tell anybody involved what they hear, but since they don't have yunits thats easy to do). The problem isn't that I don't trust you all, I do trust the people here. The problem is that once you've seen the situation its hard to ignore and could effect your decisions, even unintentially.
Aggie