12-04-2003 13:30									#1
	Would you loot if your gov't collapsed or was liberated? OR When is looting ethical? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This should be an interesting change of pace.
If the government of your country collapsed or was "liberated" by a foreign power, would you loot? Or if not, when would you find looting ethical?
I am somewhat torn. For example, the arguement could be made that looting is theft, which is wrong. But the counter-arguement could just as easily be made that looting is taking back what is yours from those who have held you in chains for so long. Now, that said, there are examples where looting is wrong no matter what, such as looting a hospital, or looting some poor old ladys house.

	12-04-2003 13:35									#2
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You tell me. When would you, being the good Christian, decide that the commandment regarding theft no longer applied to you?

	12-04-2003 13:38									#3
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Ya see, that's the crux of the question for me DinoD. When would something cease to become theft and become taking something that is your rightful property? Or would it ever?
It is somewhat distressing as I am for the most part an absolutist when it comes to questions of morality. Here I reach an impasse. I would be interested in hearing some of the arguements for both sides.

	12-04-2003 13:50									#4
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looting is immoral, plain and simple.

i understand your argument, if i were an oppressed Iraqi i'd probably feel like i should get mine, but looting is still wrong.

i'd start a drilling company and outsell OPEC

	12-04-2003 13:51									#5
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i don't like looting so much. particularly because i'm physically less strong as most others, and thus i would both be at risk of being looted from (if i had anything of value), or being unable to loot.

it's a question of relative power, i must say.

	12-04-2003 13:53									#6
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I'd loot: loot early and loot often. Its worth it.

If our corrupt Labour Government collapsed then I'd be roaming around the country in a pickup truck shooting at the 'great and the good'.

I think looting of government or administration buildings is 'ok' since its a psychological payback for years of misrule.
Especially since a new administration can't use all of the tools and buildings of the old if it wants to be taken seriously.

However looting of private property (unless its the palaces of the powerful/old order) shouldn't be allowed as it creates more problems/ disputes.

	12-04-2003 15:33									#7
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Looting is ethical iff it involves free beer.

	12-04-2003 17:00									#8
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I wouldn't go looting. Not because I think it is unethical, but beacause I am lazy.

	12-04-2003 17:04									#9
	Got spare money?

I'd be too busy surfing the net.

	12-04-2003 17:10									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns I'd be too busy surfing the net.

What if looters had taken your modem? That's why I would "loot" some form of rifle from somewhere and stop there.

	12-04-2003 17:12									#11
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Sometimes the veil of authority is lifted over a people or nation. Justice may ensue at first but then you can expect vengeance. Looting reminds me of a prison riot, particularly one that occured in New Mexico. The oppressive and cruel guards got their just reward for their willfull torment of the inmates. Then they started torturing each other. Eventually many started giving themselves up to avoid their fellow prisoners.

I suppose that if someone took something from me under cover of law and then the society became lawless I would be tempted to take the (non existing) law into my own hands and get my stuff back. I say tempted, but I hope that I would not actually do it. Jesus said to let them have the stuff.

	12-04-2003 17:13									#12
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If they entered my house, they wouldn't live long enough to find my modem. One of my hobbies is to collect sharp swords.

	12-04-2003 17:21									#13
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erm... maybe.

	12-04-2003 17:32									#14
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Looting is merely a form of redistributing wealth. Granted, it is not a very civilised or equal form.

I'll go liberate gold and jewelry from the bank.

	12-04-2003 18:03									#15
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Actually, I don't think that it would be the right thing to do. or even an OK thing to do. but I would still probably do it.

	12-04-2003 19:18									#16
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I've experienced two periods of what can only be called anarchy and looting: a riot following a [dumb] judge's decision to give a Korean-American shopowner probation after she shot and killed an African-American teenage shoplifter and a city-wide riot following the Rodney-King-beating-trial acquitals.

During the first one, I stayed in my apartment and felt guilty because I didn't go out, brave the rioters, and try and protect the store of friends of mine [luckily, it wasn't touched, although other stores in the mall were looted and burned out].

During the King riots, I packed up and got out of town.

These two incidents left me with a great love for the police.

	12-04-2003 20:46									#17
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Ofcourse I would loot. One of my characters in Ultima Online was named Lex Looter

	12-04-2003 21:39									#18
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Should the government collapse here, I don't think it will suddenly interrupt all food and water distribution, because those are largely independant of the gov.
A general climate of anarchy seems unlikely here, at least in the few days/weeks after the collapse of the regime. But should there be a general climate of anarchy, I'd protect my goods, because I have some. Had I no food, no water, and no goods, I'd probably go looting like everybody else.

	12-04-2003 21:58									#19
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How would one define "looting"?

Should the government and infrastructure of society collapse in such a way as to produce anarchy, I'd probably try to help organize people into a group that looked after each other and made it a priority to see that basic needs were met.

But if I was in a situation where I and my loved ones are, say, starving, would I "loot" food to feed us? Absolutely.

	12-04-2003 22:22									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Looting is merely a form of redistributing wealth.

Let's just call it what it is and say theft.

	12-04-2003 22:25									#21
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I would try not to...unless my own survival was threatened, then looting for food or supplies would be sadly "necessary". However, I wouldn't loot furniture or PCs or other luxuries, that's just greed.

And still, I can't understand why some people would ever resort to looting hospitals, of all places...

EDIT: ...likewise, people who loot museums should be shot too.

Last edited by JCG on 13-04-2003 at 06:47

	12-04-2003 22:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Let's just call it what it is and say theft.

But would you steal food to feed your family?

	12-04-2003 22:47									#23
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I would probably try to loot some firearms and ammo at the very begining, adn then i would just defend my house and posessions... Perhaps sending some family members out on 'sorties' to "gather" canned goods and bottles water and batteries and other stuff that every survivalist already has stockpiled incase of such a scenario.

	13-04-2003 01:28									#24
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Nope, I won't loot, monkspider.

Seems pretty clear to me that while ownership is disputed, at no point do I have a right to something that is not mine.

	13-04-2003 02:06									#25
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I would loot the looters' houses.

	13-04-2003 02:37									#26
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quote: Seems pretty clear to me that while ownership is disputed, at no point do I have a right to something that is not mine.

How the hell do you "own" something anyway?

Looting when your government collapses and looting your local bank right now is a same exact thing. However, I consider none of those things unethical.

The only difference I can see is that in one scenario one can claim and enforce their "ownership" (whether thru superiority in force or legal matters) while in the other they cannot

	13-04-2003 02:55									#27
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Ownership means buying something with money you have earned or been given. Far different from looting.

	13-04-2003 04:19									#28
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Why do you guys keep treating "would you do it?" and "is it just"? as the same? do you always do the right thing?

	13-04-2003 04:56									#29
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I try...

The important question for me is the second one, is it ethical?

	13-04-2003 04:59									#30
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In this instance, there are some segregated case where there is nothing wrong with it. By far and large, it's wrong. But I would probably loot the historical museum too. It's just a shame they made such a mess there. If you loot, be tidy about it.