13-04-2003 22:51									#31
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far better to have anarchy far away than terrorism at your front door

	13-04-2003 22:52									#32
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Imran:
I want to see the US becoming socialist, ain't that good enough ?

	13-04-2003 22:56									#33
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How is that NOT destroying the US? I don't think Ned meant physically destroying the US, he meant destroying what it is now (ie, capitalist hegemony).

	13-04-2003 23:02									#34
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I actually thought he meant destroying the US.

	13-04-2003 23:09									#35
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I don't think you can make the US socialist without destroying it.

	13-04-2003 23:13									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I don't think you can make the US socialist without destroying it.

I thought it was supposed to be a democracy. Oh well.

	13-04-2003 23:15									#37
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Sure you can, but that would require the south seceding, and well i dont think anyone in the nation has a problem with that. Imran, will you run for office in the confederate states of amercia?

	13-04-2003 23:16									#38
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Yeah, a 'capitalist' democracy .

In order to make it socialist, you'll have to destroy the underlying economy and rip out parts of the Constitution dealing with 'contract' and 'property'.

	13-04-2003 23:23									#39
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rip out? first we abolish corporate party sponsorship aka bribery.
Then, we'll change the constitution. It's That simple.

	13-04-2003 23:26									#40
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Because that's gonna be easy .

It'd require a revolution... that'd be destroying the US to me.

Just like the Bolsheviks destroyed Russia when they took over.

	13-04-2003 23:28									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel rip out? first we abolish corporate party sponsorship aka bribery.

Bribery is already illegal. Now if you're going to rip out a part of 1st amendment just say so.

	13-04-2003 23:30									#42
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Corporate party sponsorship directly results in buying the good graces of a party. It escapes the formal definition of corruption, but does exactly the same.

	13-04-2003 23:32									#43
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It's also an aspect of free speech, Spiffor.

	13-04-2003 23:35									#44
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Thats if you believe monetary contribution is free speech. i personally dont, but then again im not in the position to change that.

	13-04-2003 23:40									#45
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I don't understand the relationship between giving money and "speech".

	13-04-2003 23:43									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I don't understand the relationship between giving money and "speech".

Bribery is a type of communication.

	13-04-2003 23:48									#47
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corporations should be made illegal

Jon Miller

	14-04-2003 00:44									#48
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quote: Bribery is already illegal. Now if you're going to rip out a part of 1st amendment just say so.

Here, I said so.

seriously, I can't seem to see the difference. Can I give money to the judge that is judging me? No, NOT TO BUY HIM, JUST A CHRISTMAS/RAMADDAN/HANUKKAH/FESTIVUS present.

Why not? I am expressing my free speech, no?

	14-04-2003 02:00									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Ned is a diehard rightwinger, but he is not stupid. More than once I have seen him curious of what is said on "the other side", and more than once I have seen him accepting facts that don't correspond his worldview. So, I asked this question out of genuine curiosity and interest

"Communists want to destroy the United States."

Actually, this is virtual quote from Nikita Krushev circa 1958. Obviously, the communist party seems in principle to have since abandoned the violent overthrow of governments. I would like to know when this change in "policy" happened.

	14-04-2003 19:16									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It's called "projection." It's taking your own values/traits/etc. and give it/them to other people. For example, a person who is suspicious of everybody else may think that other people are suspicious of him too, which in fact is probably not the case.

I saw a lot of this in China. It was almost pathological.

	14-04-2003 19:21									#51
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I don't know why anyone should be eating crow yet. The real test will be establishing autonomous "democracy" and staving off chaos, ala afghanistan . The short-term victory of liberation was the honeymoon.

	15-04-2003 19:15									#52
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Always,
it can not be done,
with you.

The US can not invade, it was done!
There will be hundreds of thousands of casualties, there were not!
The US is responsible for everything that happens on this planet, IT IS NOT!

In the words of Donald Sutherland: "Enough with the negative waves, Moriarity!"