14-04-2003 08:13									#1
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I'm sorry to retread old ground, but do piker bonuses only occur against units with mp=2, hp=1, fp=1? Could have sworn that someone discovered that the fp=1 requirement wasn't true, but I can't find the post.

	14-04-2003 13:31									#2
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IIRC mp=2 & hp=1 is all - I don't think there are any standard civ units with mp=2 & hp=1 that have a fp of other than 1, but you can make them for a scenario.

SG[1]

	18-04-2003 07:53									#3
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You are correct, the fp=1 part was disproven. Movement=2, hp=1 is what triggers it.

	21-04-2003 08:12									#4
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Thanks for the confirmation. The thorough work dissecting combat that's been done here is a real boon for scenario designers.

SG[1], you can imagine how far from 'standard Civ2' that scenario designers will go. Things like does the unit role or domain affect the piker bonus?

The piker bonus seems a nice way to introduce specialist units, unless you don't like a lot of 1hp units in your unit mix.

	30-04-2003 15:18									#5
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there is a requirement for the pikemen bonus?
i had a phalanx(which i gave the pike code) who defeated tanks with ease(although i do admit it was behind walls) how come this happened?

	01-05-2003 09:22									#6
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Not to hard to see.
2 for Phalanx, ×3 for City Wall, ×1.5 for vet = 9.0 defense vs 10.0 Tank attack.
On a river defense would be 13.5…

	01-05-2003 13:58									#7
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Straybow - isn't it 2 for Phalanx +50% (Vet) + 200% (Walls) = 2 + 250% x 2 = 7 ? +50% (river) = 8?

	01-05-2003 21:55									#8
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"+200%" = ×3
"+50%" = ×1.5
and walls, vet, terrain should be cumulative, not additive

	02-05-2003 19:42									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow "+200%" = ×3 "+50%" = ×1.5

That's not the same:
Base of Phalanx is 2;

+200% means +4
+50% means +1
So it's 2 +4 +1 = 7

2 x3 x1.5 = 9 And that's not the same...

I asked myself many times what's the right way to calculate - multiply seems to strong to me; a vet-phalanx on mountain-river with citywalls and fortified would have a defense of 2 x1.5(vet)x3(walls)x1.5(river)x3(mountain)x1.5(fortified)= 60.75 defense and that's too much...

2+50%+200%+50%+200%+50%= 13 That sounds more fair...

	03-05-2003 00:09									#10
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you dont get the fortified bonus if you are behind walls or fortifications.

	03-05-2003 07:46									#11
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quote: Not to hard to see.

I'm somewhat nervous (and foolish) second guessing the experts, but it's a little bit hard for me to see , unless you changed the hp's of either unit. Couple of years back, Slowthinker helped me write an Excel sheet based on the info in GL combat thread (he is one thorough debugger! ). Plugging those unit/terrain values into the sheet gives the following:



If you calculate it using a piker bonus (or a forest bonus), the odds are much closer to 50/50.

	03-05-2003 14:44									#12
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Can you upload that sheet?

quote: Originally posted by Elephant you dont get the fortified bonus if you are behind walls or fortifications.

Where have you got that information? I can't find anything to it in the Civilopedia

	03-05-2003 17:50									#13
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The original link is lost, but I think this has the same information: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=22856. The 'version' on which I did the calculation is heavily festooned with scenario data and i/o routines involving modified ToT Rules.txt files. Let me dig for a file without all the extra junk in it. SlowThinker, if I'm too slow, can you post your copy? Thanks.

	03-05-2003 19:25									#14
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quote: SlowThinker, if I'm too slow, can you post your copy?

Do you mean the ccpcalc.xls file or a link?

Is this the last version?
The wheel reinvented: a combat probability calculator