10-05-2003 22:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Oh yeah, that nasty little Tau factor comes into play once you start getting into relativistic speeds. But the main problem is fuel, fuel, fuel.

Use a ramjet, you will have practically unlimited fuel.

	10-05-2003 23:04									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Big Crunch: I saw a special on TLC about using Magnetic Fields... these guys levitated a spider in a machine about the size of a small stadium

Holy crap where did they find a spider the size of a small stadium from?

	10-05-2003 23:12									#33
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I'm gonna reach through this internet and smack u UR

	10-05-2003 23:15									#34
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Speed of Light, 4.3 years to get AC.

Using Solar sails and lazer sails propulsion it would take 100 years to reach alpha centari.

Wached a show very similiar on TLC



Basically a big laser behind the sail propels it forward.

Using controlled Nuclear propolsion in deep space will take 20,000 years.

Im think it would be more fruitful to investigate and colonize our own solar system

	10-05-2003 23:17									#35
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FYI the Pioneer is further out than the Voyager and is traveling faster towards a nearby star than the voyager. It is pretty far out..of the solar system, Its passed pluto in the early 90's already they only recieve a weak signal from it once every 6 months

	10-05-2003 23:18									#36
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the Soviets have one out there too.

I mean Russians.

	10-05-2003 23:27									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Use a ramjet, you will have practically unlimited fuel.

I think that someone did the calculations on this and determined that it wouldn't supply enough power.

	10-05-2003 23:27									#38
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FG: Do you mean the laser would be on the craft? That would violate one of the Laws of Motion.

	10-05-2003 23:28									#39
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Isaac Asimov had a goog article about all of the methods and speeds, etc. 40 or so years ago.

His conclusion was that we could probably only go 1/10th the speed of light at the maximum and would take maybe 50 years to get to the closest star.

Beyond what Asimov discussed, if you were to assume that faster-than-light travel and communication is impossible, but cryogenics possible, then you get a very interesting migration pattern galaxy-wide. Because of the vast distances involved, you would have to rely on the natural spiral-shaped contours of the galaxy. Also, you would have to stake out your territory not knowing whether a world would already be colonized once you got there.

	10-05-2003 23:31									#40
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No it wouldnt. it would be in deep space at a distance from the sail feeding it when it slowed down.

and i dont know anything about the LOM. Please explain why a laser couldnt be attached to the sail/trailing it ?

	10-05-2003 23:33									#41
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oh I see...

FG: It would be like putting a fan on a sailing ship. The amount of energy required for propulsion acts in the opposite direction... i.e. recoil from a gun, etc

	10-05-2003 23:33									#42
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I just wish all this happened in my lifetime. I know one day Man will dominate the stars, and any subspecies therein....its only a matter of time. Our nature is advancement, expansion, and conquest.

	10-05-2003 23:35									#43
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oh ok. Now that makes sense. Lasers have recoil? Oh and I thought all it would take was a 3 second blast every couple of months to keep things moving.

anyway. Your probably right

	10-05-2003 23:35									#44
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I think, eventually, if that does happen, the difference in environment, gravity, and vast distances will cause humans to evolve in different directions. Perhaps one day, a future race of beings will be searching for their planet of origin and for the forgotten human race which is the link between them all. Interesting stuff. I read an Asimov novel with that premise.

	10-05-2003 23:37									#45
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory oh ok. Now that makes sense. Lasers have recoil? Oh and I thought all it would take was a 3 second blast every couple of months to keep things moving. anyway. Your probably right

heheh you shouldn't listen to me, I'm a dumbass

Anyways, I'm not sure how the whole laser thing would work. A laser that would have enough power necessary to propel such a ship would probably be very big and require a lot of power. Who knows how it would behave.

	10-05-2003 23:38									#46
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I think that the laser is supposed to be stationary. Researchers have actually managed to make small discs fly using a stationary laser. I belive that it works because the laser heats the air under the concavity of the disc, causing a sort of jet effect. If this is true I don't think it would work in outer space.

	10-05-2003 23:44									#47
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Sure why not? In the future lasers will be more powerufl. already look at our first significant Chemical laser....the ABL. Has an operational range of 500 miles. Its top secret of course. But we all know it exists. There going to make in fully operational in 2005.

Computers could track the locations from far differences

	11-05-2003 00:29									#48
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There's no air in outer space, hence no air to heat up.

	11-05-2003 01:08									#49
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Doc Strangelove:

quote: People are much bigger than frogs, and therefore more difficult to freeze and unfreeze without forming ice crystals which damage cells

These are exactly the same problems those frogs were facing, Doc. Ice crystals break up the frogs just as they do humans. What they did, IIRC, is they had a drastic decline in the level of water in the body, combined with the mass synthesis of a particular sugar.

	11-05-2003 01:14									#50
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lasers would work for the same reason solar sails work. electromagnet waves carry momentum. tho I don't see how u could ever make a laser approaching a power big enough to push nething even remotely significant in size.

	11-05-2003 01:26									#51
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"Don't forget to reverse the polarity Commander Data!"

You idiot. You've got to reverse the polarity of the NEUTRON flow. Do it wrong and you could destroy the whole fabric of the space time continuum!

	11-05-2003 02:55									#52
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But space has no resistance? No gravity!? Its a vacuum. I mean if you toss a baseball off the space shuttle at 90 mph, it will continue to go 90mph for ever until it falls to a planet or burns up.

	11-05-2003 03:00									#53
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What are you trying to conclude faded? I think u forgot the second half of ur post.

	11-05-2003 03:04									#54
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errr...I didnt forget. The server did.

	11-05-2003 03:24									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Sava And humans as we know it have roamed the Earth for around 2 million years.

No that's not right. Homo Sapiens, the species we are now, have only been around for about 150,000 years. There have been hominids for at least 2 million, but they were nothing like us, they were more like apes back then. Here's a link if you're interested:

Homo Sapiens background

	11-05-2003 03:28									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I think that the laser is supposed to be stationary. Researchers have actually managed to make small discs fly using a stationary laser. I belive that it works because the laser heats the air under the concavity of the disc, causing a sort of jet effect. If this is true I don't think it would work in outer space.

you can push with a laser (fixed)

basically light has momentum (and this can be transfered)

so you can have a huge laser set on pluto

and use it to drive a spacecraft to another system

it is very similiar to the idea behind a solar sail (to move even the smallest of vessels with a solar sail, the sail would have to be the saze of texas

Jon Miller

	11-05-2003 03:39									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Aren't fusion power and superconductors assumes to provide gigantic amounts of energy unheard of until now ?

Unfortunately, they're both theoretical at the moment.

	11-05-2003 03:44									#58
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no they aren't

fusion power is not economical at the moment

and I have made a Superconductor (Type 2, but ....)

Jon Miller

	11-05-2003 03:49									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sava FG: Do you mean the laser would be on the craft? That would violate one of the Laws of Motion.

No, the laser would be in Earth's orbit and direct a continous beam in one particular direction.

	11-05-2003 03:54									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I think that the laser is supposed to be stationary. Researchers have actually managed to make small discs fly using a stationary laser. I belive that it works because the laser heats the air under the concavity of the disc, causing a sort of jet effect. If this is true I don't think it would work in outer space.

No, light contains photons which have a very slight mass. When they connect with a sail, they would push the craft forward.