14-04-2003 14:03									#1
	Questions about Shogun - Total War Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Bought it last week and have a couple of questions.

In the training mission ("first battle"), why do my archers run away? I give them orders to hold the position, to attack etc but they seem to fall back as soon as the enemy comes too close. Is this to obtain the needed distance to be able to use their bows? I also have difficulties moving them where I want... I can't even win the training mission...

This is a nice price copy of the game. At the back it says the CD's contain a manual with English/Swedish/Danish text. They also have Acrobat Reader included, but there is no manual, not even a single .pdf file... Ok, you don't have to be a genius to figure out the game, but still... The map room, for example. How do I "enter" one of my provinces (or can't I?) to inspect the troops or build things? Do I only see the same landscape (i.e. as in the training mission) when it's time to battle, and is the rest of the game played from the map room?

Carolus

	14-04-2003 14:11									#2
	Re: Questions about Shogun - Total War Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Is this to obtain the needed distance to be able to use their bows?

Yes.

	14-04-2003 14:24									#3
	Re: Questions about Shogun - Total War Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Do I only see the same landscape (i.e. as in the training mission) when it's time to battle, and is the rest of the game played from the map room? Carolus

Also yes.

-Jam

	14-04-2003 17:52									#4
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When Shogun came out (almost 3 years ago now) I remember rushing back home and screwing up that mission twice.

I said, but finally it clicked. IIRC you just empty your archers when they have the height advantage (shoot as they are coming up the hill) then order the archers to attack using swords.

	14-04-2003 19:34									#5
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Thanks.

I'll probably come back with more questions... After failing the training mission I got frustrated and felt like ... Didn't take the time to explore the game more thoroughly...

Carolus

	14-04-2003 22:04									#6
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It was a great game.......very innovative for its time. Of course nowadays you really should get Medieval Total War, which is more polished.

	14-04-2003 23:42									#7
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both games are fantastic and well worth sticking with. if only only someone could combine EU2's number of countries and provinces with the total war 3D engine it would be my perfect game

	15-04-2003 03:10									#8
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I don't have much experience with RTS games, what made it innovative? Not that I find it poorly designed or anything, I think it has very nice graphics. As for gameplay, it is still terra incognita to me, which should be obvious from my posts above.

Carolus

	15-04-2003 03:14									#9
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And has Medieval Total War recently been shipped? I haven't seen the title here yet, I think.

Carolus

	15-04-2003 03:16									#10
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Medieval came out last year.

and its a damn fine game.

	15-04-2003 03:20									#11
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it was innvative because it combined turn based empire building and province management with fairly realistic real-time 3D battles (and the battles are really great).

	15-04-2003 04:03									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex I don't have much experience with RTS games, what made it innovative? Not that I find it poorly designed or anything, I think it has very nice graphics. As for gameplay, it is still terra incognita to me, which should be obvious from my posts above. Carolus

It is both TBS planning and RTS battles. The engine for the RTS is surprisingly advanced......with things like morale playing a huge part in games, unlike usual RTS.

	15-04-2003 12:14									#13
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DrSpike,

I let the archers shoot at the enemy when they have a height advantage. At the most, they've killed three before retreating and being charged by the enemy. After that they always retreat and I can't seem to get them organised again. How do you order them to attack using swords? Does it happen automatically when they're engaged by the enemy? They fight man to man, but always lose heavily...

How can you ship a game without a manual, even if it's a budget series?

Still have to win the training mission...

Carolus

	15-04-2003 12:43									#14
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Carolus, try this forum. I picked up a lot of hints here. I'm not much of a RTS profi either, so it was of great help.

http://www.totalwar.com/community/warlord.htm

BTW, don't worry about the training mission too much.

-Jam

	15-04-2003 16:16									#15
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If you have to order your archers to attack with swords, unless its in the back of an enemy already being killed form the front, you're in trouble. Archers should always have some friends with big shields to run and cower behind. Archers on a steep hill just behind a row of spearmen are deadly.

	15-04-2003 19:06									#16
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Yeah Grumbold is right, archers suck with swords. But it is necessary to win the mission IIRC. Of course your archers should take more than you are describing with their bows.

To order sword attack (do it running downhill so you get the attack bonus) I think you have to hold down a key (which changes the cursor) then click on the units.

Only problem is I can't remember the key.......it's been over a year since I played STW.

	15-04-2003 19:07									#17
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Hold on, try SHIFT + Left click.......that seems to ring a bell now, thinking about it further.

	15-04-2003 22:23									#18
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I'll try that.

Winning the training mission is not necessary... It's just personal...

Carolus

	16-04-2003 00:12									#19
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Not sure about shogun, but i'm pretty certain in Medieval you use alt click to force melee combat. If it works the little arrow icon will change to a sword.

	16-04-2003 01:22									#20
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Alt-Click could be it........it's certainly something similar to what I suggested even if it isn't exactly right.

	16-04-2003 09:02									#21
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike It is both TBS planning and RTS battles. The engine for the RTS is surprisingly advanced......with things like morale playing a huge part in games, unlike usual RTS.

The TBS bit is rather thin.

Anyway, yes, watch your morale, but the rule can be used to your advantage. One of my favourite tactic is to hold back a heavy cavalry (or better yet, No-daichi) unit, and unleash it against the enemy general unit when it comes within range. If you manage to kill him, the enemy routes.

	16-04-2003 18:07									#22
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Yeah the TBS is a little thin for sure, but it makes the RTS battles more satsifying when they are linked together by your decisions on the map.

	17-04-2003 07:01									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Shogun Total War has no replay value. Once you played all the factions, including the rebels, once. You're done.

Still not bad for a bargain bin game.

	17-04-2003 07:35									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Shogun Total War has no replay value. Once you played all the factions, including the rebels, once. You're done. Still not bad for a bargain bin game.

That depends.....at the time STW was big MP, probably bigger than MTW since the developers spent more time balancing the game for MP.

And playing 7 factions still gives you more than 200 hours. Not bad for a full price game either.

Plus there were many scenarios made by fans that were fun to play, adding even more longevity.

So no, basically.

	17-04-2003 13:39									#25
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Daaang, I love this game!

No-Dachi? My fav. is to have a smackload of arquebusiers and calvary units. Pelt the opponent with buckshot, then hack the rest up with your horsies. Keep the arquebusiers safe with some No-Dachi and Ashigaru.

I'd recommend you have your armies accompanied by some Ninja because you'll find out the computer likes to play dirty and try to 'off' some of your best generals.

	17-04-2003 19:10									#26
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Arquebusiers suck big time.

In the early game archers are better, then muskets. No-dachi are cool, but they have no armour, so ranged units like archers can have a field day.........but if they get closed to your lines it's carnage.

	18-04-2003 05:49									#27
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Ashigaru units stink. Unless you are Oda, then they stink less. Sometimes the computer stacks the general with an Ashigaru unit, which always is a fatal mistake.

I use ninjas extensively, but they are just no match for the geishas. They can only be countered by other geishas.

	18-04-2003 05:54									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

In the early versions 1st Geisha = game over; they were just too powerful. Later on they tweaked build times and made the geisha less powerful.......but still formidable. Winning with these is the lazy way out though, since when you kill the heirs and leader their empire splits into uncoordinated rebels and lands formerly controlled by other factions. One game virtually the whole map declared allegiance to me just because I killed a leader with no heir.

	18-04-2003 08:06									#29
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whoops, meant musket.

Hey, I use the ashigaru to protect the guns. Usually the enemy doesn't get close.

	18-04-2003 14:42									#30
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I'm with UR.......you should use Samurai not Ashigari........Ashigaru are peasants, and they run if someone says "boo" too loudly on the battlefield. Only for use early on or if you are Oda and can have bags of them on the cheap.