15-04-2003 10:29									#1
	Some ideas for wonders Inflate your Upload Space

I have been fooling around with the editor trying to create a mod for myself.

A single wonder can be created which will become obsolete in stages. For example you may allow a wonder which gives 50% extra tax in one city and a free building in every city on the same continent. If you edit that free building so that it is only available under a particular government it will disappear under any other form of government. If this free building provides a benefit of one extra shield under monarchy then if you switch to republic you lose those buildings in every city but you are still getting the extra 50% tax in the wonder city. (If you switch back to monarchy those free buildings reappear, unless the wonder has since become obsolete). When the wonder becomes obsolete you lose all benefits of course.

A wonder can be made available only to a particular civilisation by means of a unique technology. To do this edit say the English so that they start with "English Tech". Be sure to edit English Tech so that its' age is set as "None" so no one else can research it. Then set up an "English Tech 2" with English Tech, and maybe some other tech, as the prerequisite. Let the English wonder, or any city improvement, be available with English Tech 2. (I do not know how you could ensure that an AI English would research this tech though). Bear in mind that if more than one civ has such a technology then whoever builds the Great Library will get the technology (ie you can not give trait specific technology).

You can set a wonder to put a building in every city even if that building is otherwise impossible to build. I prepared an ancient wonder that would put a Town Centre in every city. This worked just fine even though the town centre could not be built without uranium!

You can also have a cheap wonder that provides an otherwise useless building in every city under a particular government. That building can be the prerequisite for some other useful building. That useful building could then only be built under that particular government because the prerequisite building would disappear.

I will next test whether or not a wonder will be built in say monarchy to provide a benefit under some future government. Example. Perhaps pyramids to provide a Town Centre in every city on the same continent under Despotism but under Democracy it will instead provide a Tourist Centre.

Unfortunately the AI would have no hope of handling some of these ideas so they may be strictly for the human player (play the same civ all the time).

Does anyone else have any more ideas or comments?

	15-04-2003 12:39									#2
	Re: Some ideas for wonders Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by peterfharris A wonder can be made available only to a particular civilisation by means of a unique technology. To do this edit say the English so that they start with "English Tech". Be sure to edit English Tech so that its' age is set as "None" so no one else can research it. Then set up an "English Tech 2" with English Tech, and maybe some other tech, as the prerequisite. Let the English wonder, or any city improvement, be available with English Tech 2. (I do not know how you could ensure that an AI English would research this tech though). Bear in mind that if more than one civ has such a technology then whoever builds the Great Library will get the technology (ie you can not give trait specific technology).

When I was experimenting a year ago (before PTW) you could not link tech prerequisites across ages (including NONE). With PTW, can you now say Tech "Gamma (NONE)" requires Tech "Alpha (NONE)" and Tech "Beta (INDUSTRIAL)" or Tech Gamma (Modern) requires Tech Alpha (None) and Tech Beta (Modern)?

quote: Originally posted by peterfharris You can set a wonder to put a building in every city even if that building is otherwise impossible to build. I prepared an ancient wonder that would put a Town Centre in every city. This worked just fine even though the town centre could not be built without uranium! I will next test whether or not a wonder will be built in say monarchy to provide a benefit under some future government. Example. Perhaps pyramids to provide a Town Centre in every city on the same continent under Despotism but under Democracy it will instead provide a Tourist Centre.

I tried this before and if I made the pyramids give a granary in every city, and then made the food-court wonder require 5 granaries, it wouldn't count the free granaries towards the prerequisite for the food-court. Are you saying that has changed with PTW?

	16-04-2003 03:57									#3
	Re: Re: Some ideas for wonders Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Mizaq


When I was experimenting a year ago (before PTW) you could not link tech prerequisites across ages (including NONE). With PTW, can you now say Tech "Gamma (NONE)" requires Tech "Alpha (NONE)" and Tech "Beta (INDUSTRIAL)" or Tech Gamma (Modern) requires Tech Alpha (None) and Tech Beta (Modern)? [QUOTE]

I have been able to link an Ancient Ages tech to a "NONE Ages" tech prerequisite. I can not link a Middles Ages Tech to an Ancient Ages prerequisite.

I have Play the World, straight out of the box without any patches. There does seem to have been a change with PTW.

	16-04-2003 04:06									#4
	Re: Re: Some ideas for wonders Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Mizaq I tried this before and if I made the pyramids give a granary in every city, and then made the food-court wonder require 5 granaries, it wouldn't count the free granaries towards the prerequisite for the food-court. Are you saying that has changed with PTW?

I have not tried using the "free buildings" as a wonder prerequisite so I do not know if that has changed. (I will try it though).

I have only tried using those "free buildings" as prerequisites for ordinary city improvements and that has worked.

	16-04-2003 15:59									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ok, yeah, I looked around a little, and it seems you can do the following:

You can have Bronze Working (NONE) allow Iron Working (ANC) but you cannot have Bronze Working (ANC) allow Iron Working (NONE).

Hmmm, either they changed this, or last year I didn't notice it worked one way but not the other. *shrug* but you're right the useful purpose of doing this would be to create civ specific technologies. You can start a civ off with their civ tech, and then create easter eggs (whatever) all along the tech tree. Well at least it seems that way.

I'll go try this specifically, especially to see what the tech screen shows if you have a tech that has a NONE prereq.

[edit] Ok, works, and here's some other info.

If you make Bronze Working (NONE) a prereq for Iron Working-required advance- (Anc) and you dont give it to the civilization, well once it caps out on every other available tech and cannot advance, it starts learning bronze working on its own. I didn't find out if its tradeable if its (NONE), maybe that has been discussed elsewhere.

oh, and if you were wondering what it looked like in the tech screen, it didn't. I mean to say when you viewed an individual tech (iron working) it showed bronze as a prereq, but bronze was missing from the tech screen. The arrow was still there, but that's got to do with something else and is fixable.

Last edited by Mizaq on 16-04-2003 at 16:43

	17-04-2003 00:56									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Bronze Working isn't NONE, it's Ancient Era. It just has no preqs. The beginning techs in every era have no preqs.

	17-04-2003 03:50									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

(I assumed mizaq meant if you change bronze working to NONE).

NONE techs can not be traded however if two civilisations have the same NONE tech then a third civilisation will get that particular NONE tech if it builds the Great Library. (The Great Library can create
complications in a mod if you dish out NONE techs)

	17-04-2003 04:05									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

There are two solutions, then.

A) You don't have the Great Library. Easy solution, however the problem with not having the Great Library is that you don't have the Great Library

B) Instead of giving several civs a tech, for example the Not Germany tech, you give the Americans Not Germany 1, the British Not Germany 2, etc. You also duplicate anything that would require Not Germany. Not too difficult, though it brings up a few problems of its own (all of them solvable), but incredibly tedious.

	17-04-2003 04:19									#9
	Remove this text

I agree with you completely. Either:
1. no Great Library
2. tedious modding

	18-04-2003 10:06									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Obviously, I changed Bronze Working from ANC to NONE. And adding multiple starting techs for civilizations each with NONE which are to be later used adds a lot to the tech chooser screen, which quickly becomes full from just regular techs in even just a semi-ambitious mod.