16-04-2003 05:43									#31
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Spec et. al

The geographical distribution has not been done yet.

However, some big wins for the Liberals in the Rural North and South of the St. Lawrence, even up the Gaspe peninsula.

Biggest PQ victories:

Vercheres
8248 votes,
Bernard Landry
54.71%

Ungava
1487
Michel Letourneau
50.12%

Hochelaga-Maissoneuve
6806
Louise Harel
55.14%

Gouin
6877
Andre Boisclair
53.6%

Lac-St.Jean
7811
Stephane Tremblay
53.74%

Weak seats:

Beauhamous 639
Deux Montagnes 333
St. Maurice 628 (34.7%)
St. Hyacinthe 733
Vachon 219

Contested seats:

Dubuc 69
Champlain 8
Matane (Libs) 33

ADQ Seats

Riviere de Loup 7867
Beauce Nord 2170
Chutes de la Chaudiere 2161
Lotbiniere 749

Second places : 6, and St. Maurice for 7.
1 Fourth place.

Liberals:

Biggest percentage win
D'Arcy McGee
90.8%

Biggest total win
Jacques Cartier
28,132 votes

Weak seats:
Roberval 202
Groulx 303
Iberville 921
La Prairie 926
Levis 452
Maskonge 895
Chamblay 799
Rouyn 674
Trois Rivieres 880

One third place, in the new riding of Mirabel.

	16-04-2003 06:30									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger It's also telling that he got completely shut out of Montreal.

It's also telling that even if they controlled the geographic composition of the ridings, the PQ couldn't use that to their advantage. That's how much the people wanted them out.

I think Charest did a good campaign, i.e. he did not make a public mistake.
Landry shot himself in the foot big time at least twice : the 4 day work week and the incentives for vacations. Charest jumped on what he - rightfully - said were symptoms of Big government.

The rise in the ADQ showed us that even in Quebec, there is a right wing movement developing. Landry alianated these people big time.

	16-04-2003 06:39									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Anyhow, what you're saying about the PQ and targetted subsidies is all too true. Bunch of bullshit, that. Quebec spends more than all other provinces combined on developmental subsidies. **** 'em. The PQ's just handing out corporate welfare. It's the new face of the supposed socialists in quebec.

I agree, and the thing is : they were just getting worse! After 8 years they were just a bunch of arrogant ********.
Their getting rid of their most populist people (Chevrette & Brassard) is an indication of a power struggle within the party IMO.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them both campaigning against Marois when there's a new leadership race.

	16-04-2003 10:56									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Not because I hate Canada, just because there is no way "we" will ever get along. Too many ignorant people on both sides so if we just get our seperation, it will finaly be over with.

I am not a Western nationalist for precisely the reason that most of the reasons for being so are negative.

Breaking up a country as great as this nation due to the presence of some ignorant people in various regions would, in my opinion, be a tragedy.

	16-04-2003 11:22									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Too many ignorant people on both sides so if we just get our seperation, it will finaly be over with.

Yup, they screwed it up by beening civilized, should
have never allowed the french to keep their laws,
culture, language and church (well the church was
a good, kept them backward for 300 years).

Pretty stupid thinking "civilized" people could just
get along, should have shipped the whole lot lot of
them to New Orleans like the Acadians. Or the English could be run out of Quebec with draconion laws. Eithier
way "it will finaly be over with"

Eithier way it's just uprooting hundreds or thousands of peoples lives and causing untold suffering, for WHAT???

	16-04-2003 11:41									#36
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^

Exhibit 'A'

	16-04-2003 19:52									#37
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Is that this particular post or the whole thread?

	16-04-2003 20:51									#38
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This is getting nasty, fast. As always when separation is the subject.

And as far as "cans of worms" go: Charest said he did not want to reopen the constitutional issue... yet. I get the feeling that, if/when he does, he will want to get Quebec to sign it.
Being a federalist, i wonder how much he will give in to the pressures of the people, media and his own party to ask for more powers.

	17-04-2003 02:24									#39
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither ^ Exhibit 'A'

Hav'nt do grade 11 english yet? When you do they
teach you to reconzie sarcasm.

You didn't answer the FOR WHAT, Boy Genuis.

Tell me what is SO FKING important about french culture
that your willing to uproot thousands and improverise
millions.

	17-04-2003 02:26									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu Quebec to sign

Would this make the slightest differience to the
separtist movement?

I really doubt it.

	17-04-2003 02:43									#41
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quote: When you do they teach you to reconzie sarcasm.

It's a tough medium here on 'Poly. You know that you have done your job when people take you seriously.

	17-04-2003 07:07									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Would this make the slightest differience to the separtist movement? I really doubt it.

IMO any concession that the feds would be willing to make - or any demands that Charest will be willing to make for that matter - will be way beyond what the separatist movement would see as reasonable.

They would try to use that to revive their option: that's the difference i think it would make.

I don't see Charest being too greedy as far as asking for more powers. He's always been a federalist first. I guess it's a question of degrees: He knows he'll have to ask for some of the "traditional demands", he knows nothing is ever going to be enough for the separatist movement.

Does he have any aspirations of going down in history as the one who would have brought Quebec back into Canada? Does he feel it's worth the hassle? I don't know.
He's a career politician and i never trust them, by default, but he was just voted in so i guess we'll have to wait and see.

	17-04-2003 10:02									#43
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I see a lot of focus on the federalist/separatist issue in this thread. Less on the politics. Quebec is about to take a sharp turn to the right. Let's hope things are managed better than in Harris's Ontario and much better than in Campbell's BC.

If I understand Charest's platform, he is going to increase health care and education spending and reduce taxes. That translates to me as slash and burn every other ministry and even then you will have a cash flow problem.

	17-04-2003 10:15									#44
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quote: Quebec is about to take a sharp turn to the right

Not really. You should see what the PQ spends money on. It's not traditionally socialist to hand tax breaks worth hundreds of millions a year to any company who asks for them.

Quebec is quite possibly the worst-managed province in Canada, irrespective of who's in power.

	17-04-2003 10:18									#45
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The PQ stopped being leftists some time in the 1980s. Since then the only difference between them and the liberals has been separatism, although the parties appear to finally be sorting out individual platforms which aren't solely based on this.

	17-04-2003 10:20									#46
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Frogger are you using the definition of left = left of me?

	17-04-2003 10:33									#47
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No. You guys apparently have very little feel for what the PQ and Liberal parties in Quebec stand for.

Electing an ADQ government would have been taking a major turn to the right.

The PQ is slightly to the left of the Liberals, but both parties are such confusing ideological morasses that this classification makes very little sense. The PQ spends money in two places that the Liberals will spend less: on corporate subsidies and on cultural projects.

Now, if corporate welfare is a leftist idea then I'm a jelly doughnut.

The 1970s are a long time ago, and the PQ is not the same party it was then. Neither are the Liberals, for that matter...

	17-04-2003 10:37									#48
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Charest's not the same politician he was in Ottawa either (thank God). If he were, he'd have gotten his ass tossed to the curb. The Liberals here are left of the federal Liberals, not PC or CA duplicates like the BC Liberals. Charest's accepted that, and will not mess with the welfare state, public education or health care system as practiced in Quebec. On the contrary he wants to beef those up, a sure road to Quebecers' hearts.

	17-04-2003 10:45									#49
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Frogger:

I don't have to vote in Quebec, so I do not know the positions of each party on the right-left political spectrum.

How is the ADQ right wing? What sorts of things do they endorse?

In other words, would I vote ADQ if I lived in Quebec?

	17-04-2003 11:42									#50
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ADQ is so far right it makes Klein's Conservatives look like lefties. That flat tax proposal went over like a lead balloon. But I understand Dumont tried to obfusicate his platform quite a bit toward the end.

	17-04-2003 11:44									#51
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And Frogger I hope that you are right about Charest. As a federal PC he seemed fairly moderate. If big Quebec companies start failing he could take some major heat if he cuts out subsidies.

	17-04-2003 12:32									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger The PQ stopped being leftists some time in the 1980s. Since then the only difference between them and the liberals has been separatism, although the parties appear to finally be sorting out individual platforms which aren't solely based on this.

Ya wasn't it Parizeau (sp?) who moved the PQ to the right. He always struck me as the banker type. And I think Landry got into hot water after complaining about social groups and saying he preferred to deal with corporate execs.

From what I've read, the Liberal victory was more about changing governments rather than the end of separatism. Don't know if that is really true.

	17-04-2003 12:50									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Hav'nt do grade 11 english yet? When you do they teach you to reconzie sarcasm. You didn't answer the FOR WHAT, Boy Genuis. Tell me what is SO FKING important about french culture that your willing to uproot thousands and improverise millions.

You just pointed out that you were not simply being sarcastic, boy genius.

What? You hate Alberta, you hate Quebec, or at least those dirty little French parts of it. What exactly about Canada do you like? Toronto? Well enjoy it, cause it's twots like you who make some people in other parts of this country seriously reconsider confederation. As Spec said.

	17-04-2003 16:17									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Charest's ... will not mess with the welfare state, public education or health care system as practiced in Quebec.

We'll see about that. I'm not as confident as you are.

I'd like to see hime tackle bill 101 / 178 though.
This seems to be the time for a real debate, something that hasn't happened for a long time when it comes to 178 and never - IMO - when it comes to 101.

	17-04-2003 18:29									#55
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quote: We'll see about that. I'm not as confident as you are.

If he does any serious damage then I would cheer on the PQ...

	17-04-2003 18:33									#56
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quote: Originally posted by RedFred ADQ is so far right it makes Klein's Conservatives look like lefties. That flat tax proposal went over like a lead balloon. But I understand Dumont tried to obfusicate his platform quite a bit toward the end.

Exactly. Dumont's full of...okay, let's just say he's full of ideas. They just happen to be the wrong ones.

He's an economic conservative with a separatist/nationalist streak and populist rhetoric.

i.e. he's the most dangerous man Quebec politics has produced in a generation. Our own little Hitler.

	17-04-2003 20:50									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu IMO any concession that the feds would be willing to make - or any demands that Charest will be willing to make for that matter - will be way beyond what the separatist movement would see as reasonable.

doesn't matter what concessions the Feds may make,
the separatist movement only wants one thing,

Separation

	17-04-2003 20:54									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz doesn't matter what concessions the Feds may make, the separatist movement only wants one thing, Separation

Is there an echo inhere ?

	17-04-2003 20:55									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Exactly. Dumont's full of...okay, let's just say he's full of ideas. They just happen to be the wrong ones. He's an economic conservative with a separatist/nationalist streak and populist rhetoric. i.e. he's the most dangerous man Quebec politics has produced in a generation. Our own little Hitler.

Riiiiiight! Do you even know what you are talking about?! Where do you get that? Did you hear this from a drunken guy on Ste-Cat and beleived it??

Omg....good one, I needed a laugh.

Spec.

	17-04-2003 21:17									#60
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither What? You hate Alberta, you hate Quebec, or at least those dirty little French parts of it. What exactly about Canada do you like?

Usually don't have to repeat myself, but for you l'll
type it real slow and loud.

YOU DIDN'T ANSWER "FOR WHAT", BOY GENUIS.

Frankly I only hate jerks whose holy causes cause
suffering for thousands for no gain, except to get
their blowted egos into the history books.

Get a clue, Sherlock