15-04-2003 16:06									#1
	"Activist" sentenced to 18 years for Fortuyn assassination Suffering from ads?

Story from Reuters.

quote: Dutch Activist Gets 18 Years for Fortuyn Murder Tue April 15, 2003 05:20 AM ET AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - The confessed assassin of Dutch populist politician Pim Fortuyn was jailed for 18 years on Tuesday for the Netherlands' first political killing in more than three centuries. Animal rights activist Volkert van der Graaf, whose trial ended two weeks ago, had admitted to shooting Fortuyn at point-blank range nine days before May 2002 elections that swept the taboo-breaking politician's novice party into power. "The accused went about his plan to kill the victim with calm consideration," presiding judge Frans Bauduin told a high-security court on the outskirts of Amsterdam. The brutal way Fortuyn was killed, the impact on the democratic process, the shaken legal order and the deterrent effect of a sentence were all factors the three judges took into account in determining the penalty, Bauduin said. Prosecutors had demanded a life sentence for Van der Graaf, saying Fortuyn's murder was an attack on democracy itself. Defense lawyers had said the crime should be treated like a "simple murder" and that life in jail was "unthinkable." Fortuyn, 54, a homosexual who courted controversy by calling for an immigration freeze and criticizing Islam, was gunned down outside a radio station in Hilversum, near Amsterdam. Van der Graaf was arrested minutes after the shooting. Van der Graaf, a 33-year-old vegan, said he shot Fortuyn because he saw him as a power-hungry danger to society who "abused democracy" by trying to make scapegoats of vulnerable social groups for his own gain. Van der Graaf, who had no previous convictions, was charged with murder, illegal possession of a firearm and using that weapon to threaten a man who gave chase after the May 6 murder. The Pim Fortuyn List (LPF) swept from nowhere to come second in last May's election, and took a place in a short-lived center-right government. But infighting between two LPF ministers brought down the government last autumn after just 87 days, and new elections held this January saw the LPF lose all but eight of the 26 seats it had grabbed on its election debut.

I suppose this is a just sentence, all things considered.

	15-04-2003 16:14									#2
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Vegans assassinating homosexuals, what is the world coming to!

Seriously, why have they always got to label people like that even when it is completely irrelevant?

	15-04-2003 16:25									#3
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i think a life sentence would have been better, under the circumstances.

	15-04-2003 16:43									#4
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We have a nice thing in The Netherlands that everyone who's jailed will be freed after 66% of the time has been completed.

This means that he got a 12 years punishment.

It almost makes killing a politician pay on the long run.

	15-04-2003 16:45									#5
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He killed someone in cold blood and is going to get out in 12 years. Where's the justice?

	15-04-2003 16:51									#6
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Same thing in Denmark, Cyber. Twists the picture a bit to say the least. I imagine they'll keep an alert eye on this guy even after he's released though.

The sad thing is he probably still feels he was justified in the assassination. He was trying to help those cuttly furry animals among other things, remember?

Iain: I reckon he would have been out after ~15 yrs. even with a life sentence. At least if the Dutch penal system is like Denmark's. 90% of lifers here are released after a maximum of 16 years. And life is a rare sentence here anyway.

	15-04-2003 16:56									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Same thing in Denmark, Cyber. Twists the picture a bit to say the least. I imagine they'll keep an alert eye on this guy even after he's released though. The sad thing is he probably still feels he was justified in the assassination. He was trying to help those cuttly furry animals among other things, remember?

See, there's that labeling again. They call him an "animal rights activist" even when it has no relevance to the story. I quote the article:

quote: Van der Graaf, a 33-year-old vegan, said he shot Fortuyn because he saw him as a power-hungry danger to society who "abused democracy" by trying to make scapegoats of vulnerable social groups for his own gain.

Nothing about animals in there.

Seems that he wasn't the only one making scapegoats, though.

	15-04-2003 16:57									#8
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Wasn't there something earlier about the guy shooting Fortyun at least partially because of Fortyun's fur wearing habits?

	15-04-2003 16:59									#9
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Osweld, research the case before you speak so confidently. He gave as part of his motive for the assassination a protes against the re-legalisation of fur animal farming which was a part of Fontuyn's party programme.

So yes, the "labeling" is relevant to the case.

	15-04-2003 17:00									#10
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Anyone here complaining about the prison-time ever was in jail? I was once for 7 weeks in jail and it seemed more like a year....

So 12 Years is a hell of a lot time....

	15-04-2003 17:02									#11
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i think it's a bit worrying that osweld is more concerned about the fact that they called him an 'animal rights activist' that the fact he got off with only 18 (12) years for cold blooded murder...

	15-04-2003 17:03									#12
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still, It's nothing compared to DYING.

	15-04-2003 17:03									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Osweld, research the case before you speak so confidently. He gave as part of his motive for the assassination a protes against the re-legalisation of fur animal farming which was a part of Fontuyn's party programme. So yes, the "labeling" is relevant to the case.

I didn't speak confidently, I was just going by what the article said.

It's still a scapegoat, though.

	15-04-2003 17:05									#14
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quote: still, It's nothing compared to DYING.

With a 12 years sentence I would go suicide, no question...

	15-04-2003 17:13									#15
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How much is the usual prison time for murer in NL ? I don't think there should be any exception for this guy, even though the murder was political rather than personal. Political murder shouldn't have more punishment than normal murder.

	15-04-2003 17:15									#16
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Actually, I think it should. He was torpedoing the democratic process, which is not only killing someone but shaking the pillars of society.

But I guess, that's a good thing in the Netherlands.

	15-04-2003 17:57									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor How much is the usual prison time for murer in NL ? I don't think there should be any exception for this guy, even though the murder was political rather than personal. Political murder shouldn't have more punishment than normal murder.

'normal' killing someone with a blanc criminal record is 12-16 years.

But this is not a 'normal' murdering.
He murdered the #1 candidate for being our new premier.
The complete political landscape has completely been altered after the murdering.
Several other politicians have received bullets by mail,
and one even got a loaded gun by mail!!

That resulted in several of them leaving the political theater.

The outcome of the elections 9 days later was that his list got about 20 seats (out of a total of 150) than predicted on the day he was murdered. (which is logical because the party was nothing without him)

But the governament that was formed with this party (which was still the 2nd party!!) collapsed after 3 months because of intern problems in his list. (everyone wanted to be the boss)

So we got new elections within 8 months.
These lections still didn't result in a clear outcome,
but the press concluded that the voters wanted a leftish-christian-demoratic governament. (while the majority of the parlement became right-christian democratic)

After 3 months of trying to create a coalition, PvdA and CDA (labour and christian-democrats) broke up last week.

What's left over right now is a complete battlefield.
The two extreme left parties were even debating and yelling at each other about how to proceed from now on.

Some even suggest new elections *again*
which would be the 3rd election in 1 year for the same parlement.

Conclusion:
2 years ago even our prime minister could drive with his bike through The Hague.
Right now politicians still receive treats.
A complete vacuum has been created in which almost every majority coalition seems instable.

Man cannot name this 'just a murder'.
Murdering the #1 candidate premier is murdering democraty to some degree.

It'll take years to recover from this.

	15-04-2003 17:59									#18
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In the states, he would have recieved Lethal Injection.

	15-04-2003 18:03									#19
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy We have a nice thing in The Netherlands that everyone who's jailed will be freed after 66% of the time has been completed.

Not just in the Netherlands...

The sure way for someone to serve life sentence is to get double life sentence here too AFAIK.

	15-04-2003 18:04									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Vegans assassinating homosexuals, what is the world coming to! Seriously, why have they always got to label people like that even when it is completely irrelevant?

Because all vegans are evil and it is time that the world knows.

	15-04-2003 18:05									#21
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quote: 'normal' killing someone with a blanc criminal record is 12-16 years.

For murder one?! :eek

	15-04-2003 18:27									#22
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Life is cheap over there isn't it?

	15-04-2003 18:35									#23
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I don't think so.

The difference in crime is quite significant between US and EU (generally speaking) so "our" system works better in keeping crime low.

Of course there are other parameters that also help that be.

	15-04-2003 18:43									#24
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But the Netherlands not giving the life sentence for a murder like that is really surprising in a negative way.

	15-04-2003 18:47									#25
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Don't Europeans have LWOP sentences?

	15-04-2003 18:49									#26
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it does beg the question, what does someone have to do to get a life sentence (regardless of whether they actually serve life)?

	15-04-2003 18:52									#27
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I'm wild guessing here but I think killing someone without elafryntika. What the last word mean is the parameters that make a crime a bit "understandable" (bad word) but you understand.

	15-04-2003 18:52									#28
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney it does beg the question, what does someone have to do to get a life sentence (regardless of whether they actually serve life)?

I don't even want to contemplate that if political assassinations only get 12 years.

	15-04-2003 18:57									#29
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I'm wild guessing here but I think killing someone without elafryntika. What the last word mean is the parameters that make a crime a bit "understandable" (bad word) but you understand.

i think you mean mitigating circumstances, but there doesn't seem to be any here. except maybe the fact he didn't have a criminal record, which for cold blooded murder should hardly make a difference.

	15-04-2003 18:57									#30
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The question about "political" crimes has surfaced during the trial of the 17 November. Were they "common penal code crimes" or were they "political"crimes? They are deemed to be common penal code crimes.

And what constitutes a "political crime"?
Killing someone who's a politician? Doing something that affects the "political life" of a country?

And why and how and if should a "political crime" be handlded differently than a common penal code crime.
Also in which direction different.
Of course this is all in the realm of legislative "philozophising" since unbearably simply a crime is a crime doh.