16-04-2003 14:17									#1
	AMENDMENT: Quorum in Resolutions and Amendments Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

According to the discussion held here I'm proposing changes to the current constitution.

I have taken a quick look trough the posts and here's the at least-participating-in-some-discussion-memberlist, abbreviated (Gilg,Loc,HT,mapfi,huhahu,Frozzy,Dale,Pedrunn,Tame
rlin,Zaphod,IW,Maq,Tur, DoT,coT,ískallin,Martin,Huang,Gamer Man,Solver). That makes 20. I kind of got convinced by Martin's arguement and therefore I'd prefer a absolut quorum. 7 yes votes sounds reasonable to me in this case.

I propose to change the following two paragraphs:

quote: Article IV: 3. III. Resolutions (e) If there are more votes in favour than against, and at least 1/6 of those citizens who do not abstain vote in favour, and the Court does not declare the poll invalid, then the resolution is considered passed. All Citizens must from that time on obey it. IV. Ammendments (e) If there are more votes in favour than against, and at least 1/6 of those citizens who do not abstain vote in favour, and the Court does not declare the poll invalid, then the Ammendent is considered passed. All Citizens must from that time on obey it.

to new:
Article IV,3.
III. Resolutions
(e) If there are more votes in favour than against, at least 7 votes in favour and the Court does not declare the poll invalid, then the resolution is considered passed. All Citizens must from that time on obey it.
IV. Ammendments
(e) If there are more votes in favour than against, at least 7 votes in favour and the Court does not declare the poll invalid, then the Ammendment is considered passed. All Citizens must from that time on obey it.

and also new:
Article III, 4. Rights and Responsibilities
(g) In case the number of active posters severly differs from 20 the court may change the quorum of 7 votes in favour for resolution and ammendment polls in a unanimous vote.

This poll will be open for 5 days till April 21st, somewhere at 9am GTM and unfortunately needs 10 votes in favor to pass - so please vote all!

edit: some typos

	16-04-2003 14:51									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

well, i'd still prefer to kick those out who don't participate, but lets try if we reach the quorum.

oh, and btw, we don't need 10 votes, but 1/6 of the registered members, a number that may grow or drop

	16-04-2003 14:54									#3
	it works ;) Increase the size of your Attachments

just tested it, votes don't get lost if you quit the dg-group

	16-04-2003 14:57									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

now i'm a citizen again, feels good

	16-04-2003 15:00									#5
	Support Apolyton

Quit spamming!

quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox well, i'd still prefer to kick those out who don't participate, but lets try if we reach the quorum.

actually me too, but it doesn't look like Markos is likely to do such a thing soon and we need a solution now.

	16-04-2003 15:05									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

i wasn't spamming, i was researching creative ways to reach the quorum

	16-04-2003 15:40									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Dear citizens,

I have voted in favor of this amendment because any rule that can speed up or ease the game is welcomed but I don't like the article e.

As far as Amendments are concerned I understand the need for a qualified majority in favor of a yes as we are talking about the constitution of Lemuria, but as far as Resolutions are concerned a qualified majority in favor of a yes is IMO useless...

	16-04-2003 21:48									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Dear citizens, I have voted in favor of this amendment because any rule that can speed up or ease the game is welcomed but I don't like the article e.

What e do you mean. The amendments or the resolutions. Of course we all prefer to restore the original quorum of 1/3 of the members, but that is an illusion. So on the one hand we have the court and on the other hand we can change it again if we like it. So hope this is now a stabil situation.

-Martin

	17-04-2003 03:52									#9
	Support Apolyton

The first e Martin...

I am simply writing that a qualified majority of yes is useless as far as Resolution polls are concerned.

Let's say the result of a poll is: 5 Yes and 2 No. I really don't see why the Resolution shall not be adopted because there are less than 7 Yes. The majority of the voters having expressed their will in favor of the Resolution it should be adopted.

Amendments are about changing the rules of the game and are thus far more important as they are affecting the whole game and the participation of the citizens to the game. A minimum of voters expressing their opinion in favor of the said Amendment is thus a good thing.

Am I more clear?

	17-04-2003 04:50									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i'm not very good at this constitution malarky(or spelling!), but i think having a set amount to pass a vote, rather than a percentage of members is a bit problamatic, as Tamerlin has highlighted. So i'm not sure on this one and will abstain for now.

	17-04-2003 04:55									#11
	Support Apolyton

please don't abstain!
we have to get rid of that 1/6 of a large mass of folks who don't even read this before we get even more inactive "citizens". once that is done, we can begin to argue about details.

	17-04-2003 13:09									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I voted YES.

Espacially the part with the court I agree with.

quote: unanimous vote

This should make sure that it is in the best interrest of the game!

I must say, I never expected that people would try to 'harm' our nice DG. (OK, except those CIV3'ers.......... )

	17-04-2003 13:16									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i don't think anybody is trying to harm us, the people just don't care, like in rl-politics. unless you prove me wrong of course.

	17-04-2003 13:50									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I kind of seeing it as a harm to us:

They are kind of spoiling our interrest.....

In RL the situation is different, there we, the people, don't really have anything to say........it doesn't really matter how you vote, those politicians are anyway damned layers.......

But here in our DG, it isn't (I hope )..........

And people subscribing, but not bothering about the DG, is a harm to us..........

	17-04-2003 13:55									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

well, offtopic, but in rl its also harmful not to vote. gives more power to extremists like me

	17-04-2003 17:00									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I voted yes

Good call mapfi.

Adjusting the quorum to a fixed number as opposed to a percentage will, IMHO, be beneficial to our DG. Like boy-bands, we don’t really need inactive citizens to spoil our fun .

	17-04-2003 17:22									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

One more yes-vote and we got rid of a slow-down-mechanism. I've got a few amendments up my sleeve already...

	17-04-2003 19:14									#18
	Tired of ads?

I voted 'yes'. But i still want to keep the 1/6 mechanism but only for the past 2 months posters. A fixed number do something i dont want! Remove the universality of out constitution. But the way it is written is a problem so i voted yes.
But in the future i will try to change that.

	17-04-2003 19:27									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

could someone responsible please declare this poll as successfull before some other people who don't care but like the ctp2-dg button near their name appear

	17-04-2003 19:34									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox could someone responsible please declare this poll as successfull before some other people who don't care but like the ctp2-dg button near their name appear

Well that would be the job of the proposer of the amendmet - mapfi, but first he has to wait until the poll is closed, before that the amendment can't be considered as passed. Still another 11 people could vote against it. So again the amendment is passed once the this poll is closed and no one can vote against it. And I doubt that we will see 6 new people in the next few days.

-Martin

	17-04-2003 20:03									#21
	Re: AMENDMENT: Quorum in Resolutions and Amendments Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by mapfi I have taken a quick look trough the posts and here's the at least-participating-in-some-discussion-memberlist, abbreviated (Gilg,Loc,[b]HT[/ b],mapfi,huhahu,Frozzy,Dale,Pedrunn,Tamerlin,Zapho d,IW,Maq,Tur, DoT,coT,ískallin,Martin,Huang,Gamer Man,Solver). That makes 20.

I don't partcipate in game discussion threads since i don't own the game. but i do vote in the amendment polls and the like

	19-04-2003 23:16									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Opps! sorry ZB.
After my last post i forgot to actualy vote - so i did it now without reading what has been going on since. One question - who are these [evil] Civ3ers[BooHiss ] that are trying to ruin the DG? If the above proposal is just to stop these villains then i would of course vote yes.
I was also thinking of my situation, in that i'm not getting the time to visit as much as i would like too, but i do care about Lemuria and the DG and would like to participate when i can. So i don't want to vote myself out of being involved!
What has been decided on the numbers that vote for a proposal - will it be 7 total OR 7 infavour of, to pass it?

	20-04-2003 01:27									#23
	Got spare money?

CoT you should read mapfi's initial post again, there he stated clearly that we need 7 posts in favour for anmendments and resolutions, as long as there are more Yes then No votes.

-Martin

	20-04-2003 02:40									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

Thanks Martin,
Ok i see how it all works now
Only official yes/no Polls will be run like this and all that would be needed is 7 out of the current(15ish?) regular posters to vote in favour for it to be passed, rather than the 1/6 rule.
[If this isn't right - don't worry, i wont have time to notice the difference!]

	21-04-2003 20:13									#25
	Got spare money?

Very good! This amendment passed - Pedrunn could you please adjust the constitution text? Thanks

	21-04-2003 21:52									#26
	Got spare money?

The constitution is updated