16-04-2003 18:11									#1
	AI oddity: What did I do? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Last night started a new game a Rome, because I have been reading some books based on ancient Rome and was just in the mood.

Huge map, random generator apparantly gave me continents, Emperor diff.

This whole game started off completely odd. First thing that struck me was the starting location. Cow, Wheat, lake, hills, and bonus grass all within sight. Moved off a cow and onto a hill next to the fresh water lake.

Further exploration only made it odder with bonus grassland nearly everywhere and several other sites with cows and/or wheat and both Insense and Spices within easy reach and furs a heartbeat away from that. I nearly quit thinking it was going to be way too easy when the next oddity appeared.

I had started roughly 13 tiles from Zululand. I have NEVER been that close on a Huge map. I noticed he was stuck on fields, but had several bonuses of wheat, cows, and floodplains within easy reach as well as spices.

It didn't take me long to know Shaka must go, and I had 5 cities up and running, 4 archers waiting for a 5th and a spear when he called demanding Bronze working. Yeah, right, F3 says my military is average with his...so I decline. He declares war.

Nothing new so far, right?

India was my neighbor to the west, FAR, Far to the west. I wasn't expecting a sneak attack of 3 swords from that direction towards my capitol, so I had to divert those archers to the threat of swords, once those were gone, India wanted peace again, and I focused back on Zulu. He, however, had Bronze now and was marching Impi through my territory. He also signed alliances with Germany, Spain, America, and the Iriquois WHOM I HADN'T EVEN MET. I figure he traded my communications and then some tech the next turn in return for the alliance. I could really use a popup telling me when I get a new contact from someone trading mine away...anyway...

I was happily trading with India, but they would not take anything to join me in an alliance on anyone else to divert attention away from me, since India already had a RoP with everyone else and they had to go through india to get to me. It was not long before someone pulled them in on this grand alliance for my destruction.

With what I think is the entire continent at war with me, and I had yet to find either horses OR iron, I was able to hold off all the initial advances of those far off civs , but could not gain peace without paying through the nose, so I kept at war with all of them. I did go about decimating 3-4 cities of the Zulu, but all were size 1, with him pop rushing like crazy. I did secure Iron, began my Legionary upgrades, and take Zimbabwe before gaining all tech from Shaka. That Iron and the roads leading to it have been defended from at least 20 odd archers from Zulu, another 10 from India, and several barbarian horses. Bad news was my GA was activated, good news was I am now caught up in tech, got others pissed at Shaka a bit for breaking the Alliance, and am strengthening my holdings. 20 Legionaries are marching on India another 10 are heading for Zululand again since he re-declared war in exchange for Currency from the Americans. With a few marching northwards to halt some annoying settlements that America and Germany have placed up there by Galley, and deal with Barbs before the massive uprisings.

Fortunately the Indian offensive army is wiped out. It was interesting to see 20 Swords attack my walled city, on a hill, behind a river, with my legionaire army and several spear defending it. Thanks for allowing the Heroic Epic, anyway...

A bonus to all this, though, is that the tech race has ground to a near halt on this continent. I am keeping pace with all the rest of them on my own for now, bettering a few of them, despite still being smaller and supporting a large military. It is 110 BC, and we are all still in the Ancient age. My continent has gained all wonders to date as well, so I don't expect other land-mass(es) are fairing much better at this point. It was a alot of fun getting that iron, and needing to shuffle all the defenses around defending it. I am 4 turns from the Heroic Epic, have at least 7 elite Legions runing around, and should soon be able to leader rush some wonders. (Sun Tzu's is intriguing for this game) I look forward to trying to take out India and up through the others. I still lack horses, and a decent map of the continent, though, so it may be through medieval infantry.

So, what made all these new acquaintances immediately target me for war? Germany is not entirely surprising, but the sword rush from India was strange to me esp 1400 BC, and the rest joining in so early...?

	16-04-2003 18:34									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Nice story Uber
I don't think I ever really got gang-banged (not looking forward to it either ).
Not sure what happened there, but yeah, once they start swapping contacts, weird things can happen as they are quite valuable.

	16-04-2003 21:43									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by alva Nice story Uber

um, thank you?

	17-04-2003 01:05									#4
	Suffering from ads?

lol

	17-04-2003 02:07									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

hhmmmm, nice story...but just exactly what are the strategy implications?

In answer to your question - they just played diplomacy better than you. This sometimes happens, were the AI can rope everyone against you.

	17-04-2003 08:02									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by alva Nice story Uber I don't think I ever really got gang-banged (not looking forward to it either ). Not sure what happened there, but yeah, once they start swapping contacts, weird things can happen as they are quite valuable.

I was testing a mod I was developing and using the same map every time AND getting gang-banged in nearly every time I tested the mod. The only thing that changed was tweaking a few techs and units and improvements. Apart from that map I only got gang-banged a couple of times when I was first learning the game and the diplomacy.

On that map I did have a filthy, stinking rich piece of real estate. It had every resource, luxury and bonus resource (most of were not yet available but the AI knows they are there even though they have no maps and do not yet have the requisite techs). I reran the scenario with all resources and luxuries removed from my real estate and did not get attacked.

Some of that territory was unsettled and I was on a peninsular with a one square connection to a large continent, there were no ships at all. The only access to that unsettled territory was through one of my cities.

From all this I concluded that either:
1. the sheer wealth of my lands inspired an AI frenzy of greed: OR
2. the AI wanted to settle the filthy rich vacant bits but the only way was through one of my cities.

BTW I did not stuff up my diplomacy in those tests, they all attacked anyway, often without being brought into alliances.

I suspect that you (Unorthodox) got gang-banged because you had such rich real estate.

	17-04-2003 17:33									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Sean hhmmmm, nice story...but just exactly what are the strategy implications? In answer to your question - they just played diplomacy better than you. This sometimes happens, were the AI can rope everyone against you.

And here I though diplomacy was a part of strategy...

I found it odd that within only one or two turns of even knowing of my existance the entire known world was at war with me. India, a normally peacefull nation, even originally attacked without being brought in against me as well.

I was wondering if there is something I did that predicated their hatred so fast, was there a way to prevent this, or was this just an oddity.

	18-04-2003 12:21									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi,

I've also experienced being kind of gang-banged. That's why if someone declares war to me unexpected early in the game, I pay half of my kingdom for an alliance. If not, I can fall in soooo deep problems, that I have almost no chance to get out of it. But, if I am prepared enough (maybe due to preparation for an aggression), I hit back so hard, that they forget for a war for the next 2000 years .

I am also always taking in account, which civs are my opponents. If Persia, Mongolia, Zulu or someone else so unpeaceful and aggressive, I know I have to be prepared to beat the sh*t out of them in any time .

cheers

cumi

	18-04-2003 13:01									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX um, thank you?

damn, I always get mixed-up by your names
-

I know the few times I did an OCC, i always got far better results if had no strategic resources within my territory, so yes, so theory could be spot on.

	18-04-2003 17:51									#10
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by cumi I am also always taking in account, which civs are my opponents. If Persia, Mongolia, Zulu or someone else so unpeaceful and aggressive, I know I have to be prepared to beat the sh*t out of them in any time

Yeah, it was India that really surprised me, not Shaka. Guess with him having Swords already, I appeared like an easy target.

I was looking forward to playing this through, but got home to discover my wife had deleted the sav.

I had installed the 'watercolor' graphics and she was trying anything to get rid of them... Oh well, can't complain too much, at least she likes Civ. We have lots of fun with Hotseat. Can't wait for my sons to be old enough to comprehend it as well, though my 4 year old gets a kick out of watching it already...

	18-04-2003 17:59									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Why not register him already, would make a cool account in 15 odd years
(an active settle with a 10 year old account )

	18-04-2003 20:28									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Grrr... India. Honestly, your story doesn't suprise me. I have found, above and beyond all others, India is the most unresonable civ in the game, speaking in AI terms. IT doesn't seem to matter how big I am, or whether I'm more advanced then them or not, but in any game I play with India in it, no matter how nice I am to them, they will turn around and declare war at the most random points in history.

	18-04-2003 22:50									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Same thing happens with me with Russia. Catherine hates my guts. Always has and always will. Then again nothing is as fun as crushing the enemy who has a vendetta against you

I usually don't get gang-banged too often, or at all. Good thing, as it allows me to do the same to them later. I guess diplomacy is key to get most as friends and take out your enemies one by one which I what I usually try to do.