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Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:24 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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So many in the EU want to put forward the common defence policy. To enhance it that is.

And they're talking about increasing the GDP that goes to defence spending.

Greece is propably the only one member state which already fulfills any potential future quota since its defence spending is double that of the average rest of the EU sum due to the "danger from the east".


Of course the US has been breathing long enough down european necks asking them to increase their defence spending and "share the burden".


Votre opinion sur le sujet? (watcha think?)

Wittlich is offline Wittlich

Emperor
A Wyandot lost in "The City" SF,CA
Dec 2000
time: 21:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
Greece is propably the only one member state which already fulfills any potential future quota since its defence spending is double that of the average rest of the EU sum due to the "danger from the east".


Tactfully worded Paiktis!

But I concur, the EU should place part of their combined GDP towards military/force protection measures.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:38
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I don't know.

In the light of recent events it seems to me that the better your military, the more inclined you are to use it.

gsmoove23 is offline gsmoove23
Warlord

Oct 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:43
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How far away is the idea of a unified european military. Seems like a waste to have a number of separate militaries when none of the european countries are ever going to attack each other, hopefully. Doing this would increase the effectiveness of any military expenditure wouldn't it?

C0ckney is offline C0ckney
Prince
Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:51
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it's a stupid idea, how are we meant to carry out our secret plan to invade france with a united army.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:52
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Somehow this is France's fault.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:54 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by gsmoove23
How far away is the idea of a unified european military. Seems like a waste to have a number of separate militaries when none of the european countries are ever going to attack each other, hopefully. Doing this would increase the effectiveness of any military expenditure wouldn't it?


Yep, definately. We spend still less money than the US, but we even spend it in the wrong ways.

A common foreign/defense/security policy would solve a lot of prolems, however, the devil is in the details (as the recent month have shown).

Since it seems impossible today to get all EU states together on these subjects, many in Germany and France advocate again the idea of a "core Europe". This means those states who agree begin to realise common policies, others can join later. This was succesfully done with several EU projects, however, in the fields of security it is more sensible, because a power block like France/Germany could cause fears of domination in smaller EU states.

gsmoove23 is offline gsmoove23
Warlord

Oct 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:55
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power block of France and Germany, I just wet myself.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:58 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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Perhaps you would, if you lived on our borders ...

And I donīt say those feelings are rational, they are rather historic experiences (letīs say, in Poland)

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:22
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as long as there is no federal EU taxation this is just empty babbling.

yavoon is offline yavoon
Warlord

Oct 2001
time: 05:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:24
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on the road to a one nation sort of EU defense would probably be the last step. serious defense that is, not UN security force defense. but decisive largescale armies.

don't u guys have other hurdles to get over first?

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:28
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yavoon

The EU needs to first disolve what is left of nationalism within the countries before they can successfully defend together... Politics and money don't mix in socialist states... especially where no common interest exists on the political field...

gsmoove23 is offline gsmoove23
Warlord

Oct 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:29
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Got spare money?

You wouldn't need federal taxation if the amount of money being spent on a national military were simply diverted to a combined military. This is not only sensible for nations who no longer have the need to defend themselves from another but a cost effective step, especially for Germany which seems to have effectively given up on the idea of having a military that can actually defend itself.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by gsmoove23
You wouldn't need federal taxation if the amount of money being spent on a national military were simply diverted to a combined military. This is not only sensible for nations who no longer have the need to defend themselves from another but a cost effective step, especially for Germany which seems to have effectively given up on the idea of having a military that can actually defend itself.


this was mean as a general unification note. As long as there is no true federal taxation, it's representation doesn't matter. The taxation-representation link works both ways.

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:48
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Good luck Paiktis, this seems unlikely.

BTW, how goes the fight in Greece?

How many planes did you stop from taking off?

gsmoove23 is offline gsmoove23
Warlord

Oct 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 23:37
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There is federal taxation within the individual nations, with an agreement between nations you can have joint investments, why not. It doesn't mean that people aren't being represented.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 01:09 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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_There is EU taxation, hence the EU budget.

_"Core Europe" is a relatively new term. Variable Geometry is essential what it is. Like the UK, Sweden and Denmark not joining the single european currency. Variable Geometry can't go on for ever though. It creates many disrepancies even in the primary goal which is the single market.

_Chris: actually I cheered them on since some 20 Greek F-16s went to intercept some Turkish fighters today. Turkey is a bit pissed that Cyprus signed to enter in the EU today. They should really stop screwing up and maybe the future will be better for them. I almost feel a bit sorry for them. Just a bit.

The irony however is that those who advocate common defence and thus increased defence spending are those who claim to seek emancipation from the US.


But the US is asking for exactly that: more GDP for arms in Europe.


DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 01:10
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quote:
Where's your head at...
Connected to my body.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 01:16 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
quote:
Where's your head at...
Connected to my body.


http://www.astralwerks.com/basementjaxx For the ignorants

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 01:33 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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And to be even more specific...

mms://media.astralwerks.tv/astralwerks_tv/open/basementjaxx/wheres_your_head_at_100.wmv

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