16-04-2003 21:25									#1
	The Apolyton Science Fiction Book Club: June Voting Tired of ads?

Rules are simple. Please vote for a maximum of three books. All the books are cyberpunk (we think), with the exception of last month's carry-over, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Voting ends April 30th.

I feel that I should let y’all know that Count Zero is the sequel to Neuromancer, (which, btw, wasn’t nominated).

All comments courtesy of Amazon.com

Hot damn! All my coding worked the very first time.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by Robert Heinlein, nominated by Lonestar and Slowwhand.

"Tom Clancy has said of Robert A. Heinlein, "We proceed down the path marked by his ideas. He shows us where the future is." Nowhere is this more true than in Heinlein's gripping tale of revolution on the moon in 2076, where "Loonies" are kept poor and oppressed by an Earth-based Authority that turns huge profits at their expense. A small band of dissidents, including a one-armed computer jock, a radical young woman, a past-his-prime academic and a nearly omnipotent computer named Mike, ignite the fires of revolution despite the near certainty of failure and death. "

Voice of the Whirlwind, by Walter Jon Williams, nominated by Wraith.

"Williams's novel Hardwired was a well-written but standard entry in the cyberpunk sweepstakes launched by William Gibson's Neuromancer. This followup, however, is much more interesting and successful. Etienne Steward is the clone ("Steward Beta") of a hero of the Artifact Wars, in which multinational corporations fielded armies to plunder alien ruins. He's been given Steward Alpha's memories minus the last years of the hero's life: the war and its aftermath. Now Steward Beta begins an investigation, tracking down Alpha's wife, friends, enemies and fellow vets to fill in the picture and learn why Alpha was murdered. In particular, Beta probes the war, its horrors, its betrayals and The Powers, the aliens who ended it. Resonances of Vietnam-era moral concerns make this deft updating of the postWorld War II genre of psychological thrillers about amnesiacs one of the best of its kind."

Snow Crash, by Neal Stephenson, nominated by Chegitz Guevara.

"From the opening line of his breakthrough cyberpunk novel Snow Crash, Neal Stephenson plunges the reader into a not-too-distant future. It is a world where the Mafia controls pizza delivery, the United States exists as a patchwork of corporate-franchise city-states, and the Internet--incarnate as the Metaverse--looks something like last year's hype would lead you to believe it should. Enter Hiro Protagonist--hacker, samurai swordsman, and pizza-delivery driver. When his best friend fries his brain on a new designer drug called Snow Crash and his beautiful, brainy ex-girlfriend asks for his help, what's a guy with a name like that to do? He rushes to the rescue. A breakneck-paced 21st-century novel, Snow Crash interweaves everything from Sumerian myth to visions of a postmodern civilization on the brink of collapse. Faster than the speed of television and a whole lot more fun, Snow Crash is the portrayal of a future that is bizarre enough to be plausible."

Diaspora, by Greg Egan, nominated by St. Leo.

"In the 30th century, few humans remain on Earth. Most have downloaded themselves into robot bodies or solar-system-spanning virtual realities, escaping death--or so they believe, until the collision of nearby neutron stars threatens life in every form.
Diaspora, written by Hugo Award and John W. Campbell Memorial Award winner Greg Egan, transcends millennia and universes in the tradition of Poul Anderson's Tau Zero, Bruce Sterling's Schismatrix Plus, Camille Flammarion's Omega, and Olaf Stapledon's Last and First Men. Diaspora is packed with mind-bending ideas extrapolated from cutting-edge cosmology, physics, and consciousness theory to create an astonishing hard-SF novel inhabited by very strange yet always believable characters. Diaspora is why people read SF."

The Difference Engine, by Bruce Sterling and William Gibson, nominated by JohnT.

"A collaborative novel from the premier cyberpunk authors, William Gibson and Bruce Sterling. Part detective story, part historical thriller, The Difference Engine takes us not forward but back, to an imagined 1885: the Industrial Revolution is in full and inexorable swing, powered by steam-driven, cybernetic engines. Charles Babbage perfects his Analytical Engine, and the computer age arrives a century ahead of its time."

Mindplayers, by Pat Cadigan, nominated by Lazarus and the Gimp.

(Sorry, but there was no "official" Amazon review, so I'm quoting one of the personal reviews.)

"This is Pat Cadigan's first novel, featuring Deadpan Allie (love that pun! - rock on, Cadigan). Cadigan had developed the character in stories written in the eighties. The book was published in 1987.

Seen the film The Cell, where Jennifer Lopez is inside the head of a psycho? Well, Cadigan got there over 20 years ago with Deadpan Allie, who goes into the heads of various people with some pretty crazy things going on in there, and tries to heal them.

Cadigan does a great job of knitting together the stories she wrote earlier in the eighties about Allie, and giving the whole novel a structure and an overall story arc. Allie is another of those street-smart, tough and funny women characters that Cadigan does better than anyone else. If you ran into her 'tec, Dore Konstantin in Tea from an Emtpy Cup, you'll know what I'm talking about.

This book has been out of print for quite a while, and this new trade paperback edition from Gollancz is a nice looking piece of work. It's great to see the book back in the bookstores, and I for one will be going out to replace my battered and well-read Bantam paperback copy with one of these nice yellow-jacket jobs.

Pat Cadigan is right up there with William Gibson and Bruce Sterling among the founders of cyberpunk. Is cyberpunk dead? No way! Read Mindplayers and find out how alive and kicking it is."

Holy Fire, by Bruce Sterling, nominated by Starchild.

“In an era when life expectancies stretch 100 years or more and adhering to healthy habits is the only way to earn better medical treatments, ancient "post humans" dominate society with their ubiquitous wealth and power. By embracing the safe and secure, 94-year-old Mia Ziemann has lived a long and quiet life. Too quiet, as she comes to realize, for Mia has lost the creative drive and ability to love--the holy fire--of the young. But when a radical new procedure makes Mia young again, she has the chance to break free of society's cloying grasp.”

Across Realtime, by Vernor Vinge, nominated by Ramo.

“The intricately plotted progress of characters from near to farfuture... on an Earth which, like an abandon playground, has long ago been left behind by an evolving humanity... human-scale action within a vast canvas' The Excyclopedia of Science Fiction. Encompassing time-travel, powerful mystery and the future history of humanity to its last handful of survivors, Across Realtime spans millions of years and isan utterly engrossing SF classic. 'You can hardly turn the pages fast enough. As sheer entertainment, it's a winner' (Locus)”

On My Way to Paradise, by Dave Wolverton, nominated by redbaron.

“Despite a panoply of lovingly created technologies, Wolverton's subject in this impressive debut is the age-old problem of how far a just person may go in responding to injustice. His Earth is a planet torn by ideological wars and under covert attack by those charged with protecting its interests in space. Angelo, a Panamanian pharmacologist, becomes caught up in these historic events through his compassion for an injured intelligence officer and soon finds himself believing that his only choice is to murder in the name of justice. Wolverton paces the action smartly, and in the final chapters introduces a surprise revelation that throws the motivation for Angelo's decision, as well as its consequences, into complex relief. By keeping his moral vision firmly wedded to a gripping plot, Wolverton creates speculative fiction with both emotional depth and resonance. Copyright 1989 Reed Business Information, Inc.”

Schismatrix Plus, by Bruce Sterling, nominated by Clear Skies.

“Bruce Sterling has called his Shaper/Mechanist novel Schismatrix "my favorite among my books." It is a detailed history of a spacefaring humanity divided into two camps: The Shapers, who prefer genetic enhancements, and the Mechanists, who rely on prosthetics. Sterling also published five Shaper/Mechanist stories between 1982-84, which have been collected with the novel in this compendium volume. This book represents the definitive collection of what is arguably Sterling's most intense work, offering a hard, gritty look at humanity as it pushes and claws its way to the stars.”

Count Zero, by William Gibson, nominated by raghar.

“Turner, corporate mercenary, wakes in a reconstructed body, a beautiful woman by his side. Then Hosaka Corporation reactivates him for a mission more dangerous than the one he's recovering from: Maas-Neotek's chief of R&D is defecting. Turner is the one assigned to get him out intact, along with the biochip he's perfected. But this proves to be of supreme interest to certain other parties--some of whom aren't remotely human.
Bobby Newmark is entirely human: a rustbelt data-hustler totally unprepared for what comes his way when the defection triggers war in cyberspace. With voodoo on the Net and a price on his head, Newmark thinks he's only trying to get out alive. A stylish, streetsmart, frighteningly probable parable of the future and sequel to Neuromancer.”

Metrophage, by Richard Kadrey, nominated by Molly Bloom.

“Richard Kadrey's Metrophage (Gollancz £10.95, Ace $3.50) is probably best described as second generation cyberpunk. While we don't get any ice jockeys plugging into the nearest Ono-Sendai, we get all the the depraved, decaying drug culture that is the Los Angeles of the future and plenty of low key hi-tech. The scene is superbly detailed, full of sharp observations and vivid descriptions. The story concerns a down on his luck drug dealer, who happens to be a former pawn of the ruling 'committee'. He is streetwise beyond belief and linked to all sorts of nasty people. The setting is perfectly downbeat and forms a perfect background to the rather breakneck adventures that follow. I get the impression that while the novel stands perfectly as is, Kadrey may just be having a little dig at the whole punk literature genre. Nevertheless, the lead character is likeable and believable, the one liners are sharp and occasionally verge on brilliance and the whole thing just avoids going over the top. Excellent, but grab it while it's fresh.”

(Description from Molly Bloom’s post, not Amazon).

	16-04-2003 23:37									#2
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Uh oh. Please tell me The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress isn't going to be a shoe-in as a backlash against last month's vote. Then we'll've wasted all these decent cyberpunk nominations.

	17-04-2003 00:13									#3
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That would definately suck.

	17-04-2003 05:26									#4
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For once there's more than two there I haven't read. Good.

Wraith
A book a day - that's all we ask

	17-04-2003 17:42									#5
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Now that themes are in effect, perhaps the runner-up should not be moved forward anymore. I suppose there's no reason a theme cannot be picked again down the line somewhere, so there's always a second chance a book can get nominated someday.

	17-04-2003 17:57									#6
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I'll do the runner-up thing a couple of more times, but if the trend is that last month's runner up is this months selection, then I will do away with it.

Debate?

	17-04-2003 18:20									#7
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I'll do the runner-up thing a couple of more times, but if the trend is that last month's runner up is this months selection, then I will do away with it. Debate?

Harsh Mistress is a special case, in that it has picked up momentum over several months. I say give it it's chance again this month, but abandon the runner-up concept in the future, unless possibly in the case of a tie.

My take on the themes idea is that is gives lesser known works/sub-genres a fighting chance in being selected. It's not fair to the either the nominators or lesser known books if some book from previous months steamrolls over everything on a wave of sympathy votes/ballot stuffing.

	17-04-2003 18:22									#8
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Yeah, I can see that point. The thing is, this theme wasn't too popular to begin with - a number of us had difficulty coming up with a nomination, right Static?

Seriously, I had expected this to happen from the start, especially when half the regulars were saying "I don't cyber."

	18-04-2003 01:39									#9
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We just need two more votes.

	18-04-2003 08:41									#10
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Anybody else have an opinion as to whether we should keep the "runner-up carryover" rule or not?

Btw, I voted for Moon, Difference Engine, and Across Realtime.

	18-04-2003 08:49									#11
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I think we should toss the runner-up idea.

	18-04-2003 09:13									#12
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Duly noted.

You know, there are a lot of interesting novels out there. I just don't have the time.

	18-04-2003 11:48									#13
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I think you should toss the theme idea.

	18-04-2003 17:39									#14
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By the way, I'm just loving Red Mars and am going to have a lot to say about it.

[moderator]

Bad news:

Because of travel, the Red Mars discussion will likely be delayed a couple of days... possibly until the first weekend in May.

[/moderator]

	18-04-2003 18:09									#15
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I like themes but agree that certain themes may not generate a lot of enthusiasm. Perhaps a better way to select themes can be thought out.

	18-04-2003 19:18									#16
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Maybe we could vote for themes, then vote on books.

	18-04-2003 19:50									#17
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I'd like to change my vote.

Subtract 1 from Count Zero and add 1 to the Difference Engine.

	18-04-2003 21:32									#18
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No, we don't do that here, St. Leo. What do you think this is, the Apolyton Hall of Fame?

	18-04-2003 21:40									#19
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT By the way, I'm just loving Red Mars and am going to have a lot to say about it.

About all I have to say about it will be 'what crap!'.

Edit: I forgot to say what I voted for. The only book out of the lot which I have already read (and am therefore definitely not voting for) is The Difference Engine (wasn't terribly impressed btw). Instead I voted for Voice of the Whirlwind which sounds a little deeper than the usual sci-fi trash.

	19-04-2003 01:27									#20
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Hrm. Right now it looks like it'll be a race between The Difference Engine and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (again).

Both books I've already read, of course...

Wraith
"I will tell you we're doing the right thing, but I will not look at you."
-- Wally ("Dilbert")

	19-04-2003 01:48									#21
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If I win, the theme will be "Books that Wraith Hasn't Read", I promise.

All you have to do is tell us what to nominate.

	19-04-2003 06:37									#22
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By the way, I'm far more inclined to get rid of the runner-up than the themes. As somebody mentioned earlier, themes allow lesser known books to have a chance.

	19-04-2003 12:25									#23
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Maybe we could vote for themes, then vote on books.

I was going to suggest that earlier today, but it seems like a lot of voting, as I envision the breakdown to be:

Week 1: Theme Nominations
Week 2: Theme Voting
Week 3: Book (within Theme) Nominations
Week 4: Book (within Theme) Voting

So we'd pretty much wind up discussing the next book all month, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'd hate for it to detract from the current book. On the other hand, this might wind up energizing current book discussion as well.

Some more possible suggestions:

Perhaps every X number of months could be a wildcard month, where anything can be nominated. Also, when the Hugo or Nebula awards come out, those months might be aside for current/past winners of those awards as well.

	20-04-2003 00:50									#24
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I voted for Snow Crash--sounded really interesting.
I'm also reading Red Mars and currently enjoying it...
I didn't like it at all at first, then started to like it, but am now starting to get a bit peeved with it, as it is failing to make much of a point and not being very clear on what the timeline is that is going on...but I'm sticking with it.
However, I picked up a compilation of stories by John Fante (The Big Hunger) which is always a bad sign for the book I was reading previously!

I need to check Apolyton more often...there are some great books I'd like to nominate.
I like the idea of themes (Alien War, Hugo/Nebula Winners, Time Travel, etc...) would help narrow the field.
No reason not to start a Themes Suggestion process now and just randomize the current theme for nomination purposes subsequently?
Anyhow...I like what you're doing and here's hoping my vote for Snow Crash will help even the race.

	20-04-2003 01:56									#25
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"No reason not to start a Themes Suggestion process now and just randomize the current theme for nomination purposes subsequently?"

Actually, a big reason not to is because it is a lot of work and really complicates things. (Sorry Static!) I have enough trouble keeping up with the three threads a month, last thing I want to do is add one or two more "official" threads to my workload.

I think we should kill the runner-up carry over and leave the theme nominating the way it currently is set up - with the winner of the vote picking the next theme.

In regards to themes, I would like for people to remember that an objective theme is far better than a subjective one... i.e., "women authors" or "first time novelists" are far better than "science fantasy" or "books that suck (but really don't!)"

	20-04-2003 02:21									#26
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT (Sorry Static!)

It's no problem to me, as I am for the most part opposed to having that many votes every month (which is why I held back on suggesting it).

My problem is if the winner picks a theme that isn't popular, as evidenced by "Cyberpunk" (no offense ), we shouldn't be stuck with it either.

Perhaps a good compromise is to start a themes suggestion thread, find out what types of stories most people are interested in, and just pick 4-5 themes for the next several months.

The winner might then pick the theme from that list, or alternatively, you could even pick them, John.

The important thing I suppose is to get themes that will get books people will want to discuss.

	20-04-2003 06:54									#27
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"My problem is if the winner picks a theme that isn't popular, as evidenced by "Cyberpunk" (no offense ), we shouldn't be stuck with it either."

If we are going to have themes, we use them even if one does suck - "sucky themes" work both ways: everybody might think that my favorite theme sucks.

"Perhaps a good compromise is to start a themes suggestion thread, find out what types of stories most people are interested in, and just pick 4-5 themes for the next several months."

This is a pretty good idea. Let me think about it... right now, I wanna play Freedom Force.

	20-04-2003 07:01									#28
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"The winner might then pick the theme from that list, or alternatively, you could even pick them, John."

Nah, participation is mandatory... I have a very limited view of what science fiction is (usually involving exploding stars, interstellar empires, and the like) and a book selection process that is dominated by me would be very limited.

	20-04-2003 09:23									#29
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Holy fire and the moon is sound the most intriguing to me.

the latter seems a bit derivative of "clans of the alphane moon" to me though. Say, has clans of the alphane moon been nominated yet? It's quite good!

	20-04-2003 10:09									#30
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Holy fire and the moon is sound the most intriguing to me. the latter seems a bit derivative of "clans of the alphane moon" to me though. Say, has clans of the alphane moon been nominated yet? It's quite good!

This is weird. I was at http://www.alphane.com earlier today and now somebody mentions "Clans of the Alphane Moon," a book people rarely talk about.

Also, someone in this thread mentions John Fante, and my roommate today out of the blue mentions he's interested in reading "Wait Until Spring, Bandini".