17-04-2003 01:38									#1
	Stored up production in MoO2 and why the hell they took it out Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We all remember how you could store up production in MoO2 and use it to build items in one turn. Even though unrealistic it was very helpfull when new items became available. You could for instance have a planet building an expensive ship and at some point change it to something else and build it in one turn.

In MoO3 you can't do that. So what actually happens is that when you build a new design your building queues are filled with other items (like magazine for instance ) and by the time your VRs actually start building the wanted design, it's already outdated. Even if you take the time and go into the queues you will lose all previous production.

So, what I want to ask is why did they took out that nice feature? These people who made Orion3 did they actually play Orion2? What was their resoning when they took out stored production?

A very simple thing to do is bring stored up production back and add a command to VRs like "change whatever you build to wanted item". This will really decrease micromanagement.

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	17-04-2003 20:18									#2
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You can drag and drop items in the queues to change order without losing production, but that doesn't help you if you're building some crap item for which you no longer have any use. The dragged item still has it's percentage of completion, so if/when it ever comes to the top of the queue, it's already partly built, but you can't transfer already built production from one item to another.

I don't let the AI build anything, except for the region improvments that happen automatically. That avoids the true nonsense build queues, like one new planet without any DEA's yet that started work on a Mobilization Center, to be completed in, oh, 400 turns or so.

	18-04-2003 08:58									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I didn't know about drag and drop, thx for the tip. You still lose the production though.

They really have to do something about this game, it isn't bad but it can be a lot better.

Also, they had to give a lot of info about several aspects of the game, which they didn't and they served us the ... history of the Galaxy instead
Who gives a sh*t about that.

Btw, do you know if there is a way to let the VRs build the DEAs and the planetary buildings and the leave the military queue alone? Is there a command "clear all queues"?

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	18-04-2003 09:36									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'd be very happy with a "repeat last build" feature for the military queue like in MOO2 to help reduce having to change the junk the AI keeps tossing in there and to reduce micromanaging.

	18-04-2003 12:04									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There are many ways to improve it, let's hope they find a nice one.

For example it would be nice to give the player a way to communicate with the AI and tell it how many of said item to build. "Build 20 transports and no more" Or "When I have said number of Marines, build no more"

Something like that...

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	18-04-2003 13:14									#6
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sir Alkis I didn't know about drag and drop, thx for the tip. You still lose the production though.

Are you using the Planetary Econ AI? I just (as in less than an hour ago) quit from a game where I had to drag a colony ship to No. 3 on the cue with ~80% complete, to build a couple of fly swatter LR Attack ships, then when my colony came back up, it was still 80% and one turn to go. When you drag the partly built item around, you should still see the green progress band across the bottom, just in a darker green.

quote: They really have to do something about this game, it isn't bad but it can be a lot better.

Exactly. I'm having to work harder at liking it, despite it's upsides, because the Heavy Foot of Annoyance is getting higher and higher.

quote: Also, they had to give a lot of info about several aspects of the game, which they didn't and they served us the ... history of the Galaxy instead Who gives a sh*t about that.

Apparently, in a feat of exceptional project management, the first pass of the manual was written around the time of an early build of the game, and most stuff was later changed. Fluff about the galaxy, inaccurate terms because some of the game terms have changed, etc.

One of the cute ones is the total failure to explain the attributes of the magnates, and their species types. In a game as Harvesters, I ran across a system with two planets, both of which had magnates - and it was Audrieh, of species type "Plant." Sentient plants? Maybe this was what the developers were smoking?! It's one thing to have magnates as remnants of the "traditional" MoO species like Bulrathi and Darlok, but having totally new types of undocumented magnates, and no idea whether they should be kept around as something useful, or wiped out as something dangerous? Maybe this is the galactic kudzu, sticking to every one of my ships and clogging the ponds and rivers of all my planets, drowning out all native bioharvest? What are the combat capabilities of a plant?

Luckily, (in the context of this one game, anyway), my harvesters are eating their vegetables , so I won't have to worry much about what the plant species are good for, but it would be nice to know for future reference.

quote: Btw, do you know if there is a way to let the VRs build the DEAs and the planetary buildings and the leave the military queue alone? Is there a command "clear all queues"? -

No, on both counts. However many years it's been now, Stars! had a very simple, very slick build queue. MoO3 has nothing like it.

The biggest annoyance I have (since I'm an incurable micromanager) is how much you have to fight the AI, even when it's allegedly turned off. If I had a viceroy that kept trying to mine a mineral poor planet when I told him not to, I'd shoot him and hire someone else. I specialize planets a lot, and I hate having to go back multiple times to remove some stupid automatically placed DEA that I don't want at that time in that location.

	18-04-2003 21:50									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I should have said,
I didn't know about drag and drop, thx for the tip. You still lose the production though if what you were building wasn't usefull

It usually isn't since you are not the one who chose it in the first place.

I didn't turn planetary AI off. I think it's somewhat usefull at times. But at least the military queue should be at the player's command.

More or less I agree with you, in everything you said, btw "plants" fight a little better than my Psilons I speak from experience.

I never played Stars. I knew there was a planned sequel, Stars supernova something but as far as I know it got postponed.

In your signiture, I think it's "memorial" maybe you would like to correct it.

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	18-04-2003 22:04									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I forgot something... it's about DEAs. After the opening phase minerals and food is not an issue anymore. Therefore what I do (or better what I would like to do) is remove a lot of bioharvest and mining DEAs and replace them with something else, like research for instance.

Unfortunately the DEA needs a turn to dissappear and you have to go to the planet screen again to choose the one you like.

I really hope someone of the makers of the game reads all this. The player should have been able to choose the DEA he wants at the same turn. This is something they MUST change.

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	19-04-2003 00:05									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I wish we could drag and drop magazines, psyops and the like out of the military production list...they're a real pain in the ass.

Quixote

	19-04-2003 01:00									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

I will make a new thread in the General MoO3 forum with the tittle patch suggestions/wishes. Please go there and give your output.

The makers of the game may find it helpfull.

	19-04-2003 03:14									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sir Alkis In your signiture, I think it's "memorial" maybe you would like to correct it. -

Its one of the nicer avatars and signatures I've seen in a while. I believe in the context used the word "memoriam" is more proper.

	19-04-2003 04:26									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks.

I've been a space/astronomy/rocketry etc. fanatic since I was a kid in Houston during the Mercury and Gemini programs.

Willie McCool also used to be an almost next door neighbor of mine, a few years before he got accepted for astronaut training.

Normally, I change avatars every so often, or just use the first Confederate national flag, but this one is staying up until the next manned space flight by the US.

	19-04-2003 17:10									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It was silly of me to try to correct you

Anyway, on the subject of stored production it seems there is something like that. Have a look at starting bank and ending bank. When the bank is empty it takes a lot more time to build anything. So the trick is to have your banks filled which you can do by building nothing.

Also, I realize now that I should have turned economy AI off.

It's really a pity, the game has some nice features but the documentation is poor. As it is now the player has to discover everything by himself.

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	21-04-2003 14:34									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Did you know that this is cheaping. I than playing MOO3 and I than finding that I have no need to cheap in this game.

	24-04-2003 23:57									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat One of the cute ones is the total failure to explain the attributes of the magnates, and their species types. In a game as Harvesters, I ran across a system with two planets, both of which had magnates - and it was Audrieh, of species type "Plant." Sentient plants? Maybe this was what the developers were smoking?! It's one thing to have magnates as remnants of the "traditional" MoO species like Bulrathi and Darlok, but having totally new types of undocumented magnates, and no idea whether they should be kept around as something useful, or wiped out as something dangerous? Maybe this is the galactic kudzu, sticking to every one of my ships and clogging the ponds and rivers of all my planets, drowning out all native bioharvest? What are the combat capabilities of a plant? Luckily, (in the context of this one game, anyway), my harvesters are eating their vegetables , so I won't have to worry much about what the plant species are good for, but it would be nice to know for future reference.

Looks like someone didn't read the README file, since it listed all of the Magnate info and information on planetary specials as well.

Should all this have been included in the manual or better yet, online encyclopedia? Yes. Does that mean you couldn't find it somewhere else? No.