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DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
Question  Old Post 18-04-2003 02:37
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Italy, Palestinians and US lay claim to terrorist leader Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
A CAPTURED Palestinian militant leader became the focus of an international tug-of-war yesterday as Italy demanded his extradition, Palestinians insisted that he be freed and the family of an American victim called for his trial in the United States.

Even as US forces hailed the capture of Abu Abbas, the veteran leader of the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), as a blow against international terrorism, his status threatened to trigger a long and complex legal battle.

His fate lies in the bloody events he masterminded 18 years ago, when gunmen belonging to his radical Palestinian group seized the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro in the eastern Mediterranean. They shot Leon Klinghoffer, a disabled American passenger, and threw his body and his wheelchair into the sea. Yesterday Lisa and Ilsa Klinghoffer, the victim’s daughters, said that their father’s murderer should face justice on American soil.

“We want him tried here in our country. We want to know that he will serve his full sentence — which is hopefully a life sentence,” Lisa Klinghoffer, who spoke for her sister, said. “I hope this sends the message that no matter how many years go by, terrorists can’t run and terrorists can’t hide because they are going to be caught,” she told NBC.

A spokesman for US Central Command in Qatar appeared to agree. He said that the seizure of Abu Abbas was living proof that Iraq supported terrorism. “He was a terrorist and remains a terrorist,” Brigadier-General Vincent Brooks said.

However, Italy said yesterday that it had prior jurisdiction over Abu Abbas, who was sentenced in absentia by an Italian court to serve life imprisonment for masterminding the hijacking of the Achille Lauro as she sailed between Alexandria and Port Said in Egypt.

The trauma of the hijacking still reverberates in Italy. Roberto Castelli, the Justice Minister, said that Italy would apply for his extradition “once certain legal matters have been clarified”. He added: “We want to get Abu Abbas on to our territory.”

The Palestinian Authority, however, demanded that Abu Abbas be released, arguing that his detention violated an Israeli-Palestinian accord of 1995, under which members of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) cannot be tried for offences committed before the Oslo peace accords of September 1993.

Four years ago the Israeli Supreme Court ruled reluctantly that Abu Abbas could not be tried in Israel if captured, even though “the late Leon Klinghoffer was murdered by despicable people and his blood cries out”.

Saeb Erekat, a member of the Palestinian leadership, said: “He visited the West Bank and Gaza several times with Israel’s co-operation, and for this reason we call on the US Administration to respect this agreement and liberate Abu Abbas straight away.”

Palestinian officials insisted that the United States was bound by the same 1995 accord, which had been signed by President Clinton, and that Abu Abbas had repeatedly described the killing of Klinghoffer as a “tragic error”.

Reem al-Nimr, Abu Abbas’s wife, said her husband had taken no part in the present Iraq war. “I hope the American authorities free him,” she told al-Jazeera television in Beirut. “Abu Abbas is not a member of (Iraq’s) Baath party or the Iraqi leadership and is not party to this war at all.”

Abu Abbas may have earned notoriety for his bloody exploits in the 1980s, but he was well past his prime when US special forces caught up with him in a Baghdad suburb on Monday night.

For the best part of a decade, the veteran leader of the PLF has been a fighter without a cause, who even branched out into the clothing business to make ends meet.

Born in Palestine in 1948, he grew up as a refugee in Syria and, like most of his generation, joined the PLO to fight Israel. Bold and charismatic, he formed his own faction and gained a reputation for daring and spectacular operations. He was injured fighting the Israelis during the 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

Among his own people, however, Abu Abbas was nicknamed “Mr Disaster” for the chaotic consequences of his plans. His men pioneered the use of hot-air balloons, hang- gliders and speedboats to attack Israeli civilian targets, but in nearly every case his gunmen were killed or captured long before they could cause any harm.

Abu Abbas signed up to the Oslo peace accords, recognised Israel and was even granted an amnesty and allowed to return to Gaza and visit Israel. However, with the collapse of the peace process, he returned to Baghdad and took up his old cause.

Although he condemned the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington as “terrorism”, he was accused of training a new generation of fighters and of organising the payments from Saddam Hussein to relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers.

Today the guerrilla leader cuts a pathetic rather than an intimidating figure. His hair is greying, he has put on weight, wears glasses and suffers from a heart ailment.

Asked what he would do if America attacked, he replied recently that he would fight. In the event, he tried twice to flee to Syria, but was refused entry.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-649548,00.html

1) Do the Oslo Accords really amount to an amnesty for what amounts to a crime codified in international law (ie Piracy)?

2 a) In the event that it does not, who do you think should get him? The US or Italians?

b) If the Italians get him, would he have to be retried or would he immediately start serving his life sentence?

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 02:59
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It is questionable that Oslo could be applied to the US. Further, charges against Abbas were dropped in the 1980's here due to lack of evidence. Some of the recorded intercepts even detail him trying to end the highjacking.

OTOH, he had people with him who fought a two hour gun battle before he was caught. He was obviously surrounded by some type of organization. The fundamental question has to be wheather or not he is a terrorist. The simple answer is that he is. He masterminded an event that resulted in violation of International law and Murder.

The Italians have already convicted him. We should respect their request for extradition and reward their support in the war on Terror. Let the Italians have him.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 03:07
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1. No

2. a) The Italians should get him. Plato summed it up pretty well...

quote:
The Italians have already convicted him. We should respect their request for extradition and reward their support in the war on Terror. Let the Italians have him.


b) I don't know. It really depends on what Italian law says and I don't know anything about that.

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 03:25
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1) The Oslo accords do not extend to Us and Italy. Furthermore, being it as it is, they are no longer relevant.

2) a. I don't care. Depends who will be more serious and honest in searching justce. Actually, - I prefer it be the Italians. That way, I won't have to listen to claims about the US being an Israeli lackey. This will mean that someone else in the world, besides the US and Israel, is serious about chasing and punishing terrorists. It will also be a EU country that will take an anti-Palestinain stance.

b. he should start serving. If they will reopen the trial, they'll be missing a good piece of the evidence. It's his own problem he chose to avoid trial. But I think that Italian law may prevail over my private opinion.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 03:30
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Last time two parties were contesting the "right" to a third party, Solomon had a good idea...

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 03:53
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He should be released!


....in Italy!

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 04:15
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quote:
Last time two parties were contesting the "right" to a third party, Solomon had a good idea...




I don't think anyone would stop Solomon this time...

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 04:17
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Possession is 9/10 of the law. We have him so let's keep him; as an added bonus the U.S. will be able to execute this guy in the manner he deserves.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 04:18
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Honestly, if Clinton signed Oslo, we have a major legal problem. Perhaps we should turn him over to the Italian in Baghdad.

Joseph is offline Joseph
Prince
Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 05:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Honestly, if Clinton signed Oslo, we have a major legal problem. Perhaps we should turn him over to the Italian in Baghdad.
Hey Ned, I'm all in favor in turning Clinton to someone but who?

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 06:00
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God is gonna give clinton a whoopin and thats good enough for me

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 18-04-2003 06:40
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Put him in a plane to Ramallah, and have the plane "hijacked" to Rome

I think the Italians should get him. The Achille Lauro is still a significant trauma there, and the italian justice has been much more serious about this guy than any other country.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 12:47 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

can anyone explain to me why the Italians released this guy? The news never really explained that one.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 12:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
can anyone explain to me why the Italians released this guy?
They never had him, IIRC.

Starchild is offline Starchild
Emperor
a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 17:02
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The Italians tried him in absentia. He wasn't present when they did the court case. They tried and convicted him while he was outside Italian jurisdiction for his crime.

DarthVeda is offline DarthVeda
Emperor
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Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 19:24 Visit DarthVeda's homepage!
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The American Justice system? Crap on that send him to italy!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 20:12
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How would the US ever had any jurisdiction over the case?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 20:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
How would the US ever had any jurisdiction over the case?
Hijacking ships is an international crime.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 20:43 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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We should give him to the Italians.

C0ckney is offline C0ckney
Prince
Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 22:19
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yeah give him to the italians, then he can be put straight into prision without worrying about a new trial and all that. no use wasting anymore public money on that scumbag.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 23:11 Visit Dis's homepage!
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no I heard he was in custody and the Italians released him (I think it was before his trial in abscenta). This is why I don't trust the Italians with him again.

I'd rather give him to the Palestinians

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