19-04-2003 00:39									#31
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sava youre right...in fact lets not even put them in jail...lets kill them on the spot so that we dont have to spend money on trials and whatnot.

	19-04-2003 02:09									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi We took out Iraq before they posed a danger. We got them before they got nukes that could harm us.

Canada and Mexico could pose a danger.

Maryland could pose a danger if it ever decided to secede. It could capture the capital within minutes.

Britain has nukes. What if the commies take over?

Iraq never posed a danger to us. It wasn't even a threat in the foreseeable future.

Please, you're a smart person. Give us a real reason, not the stupid crap the Admiistration is peddling.

	19-04-2003 02:19									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Is that at all relevent to the statement from the article I took issue with?

It depends on how you view "Arab support" - one school of thought is simply having something you can spin as a patina of legitimacy, to justify yourself to a third-party audience (i.e. non-Arab). Another is looking at being able to sell the US as something other than the infidel, oil-greedy, Zionist lackey producer of Coca Cola and Brittney Spears CDs.

Arab government (in it's present form) is always about doing a dance so as to not sufficiently piss off either domestic or foreign enemies, and is laden with symbolism. Granting overflight rights or basing rights is one thing (because it's passive), sending troops, which indicates a willingness to breach "Arab unity" is a very strong commitment of support. Letting us use their bases can be spun off as "well, we can't tell them what to do with their bases, we didn't support them, we were just stuck with their actions."

Think of Arab world diplomacy in terms of dealing with the Ferengi, it's actually pretty similar, except for the stroking the ears bit.

quote: quote: Last time, even Syria sent 15,000 troops. They were also helping us against al Qaeda and provided Arab cover wrt the UN resolution we used to justify going to war. I could go on listing reasons why its counterproductive to threaten Syria if you wish.

I don't think it benefits us to thump Syria at all, but my point was that of all the Arab states who helped us last time, Syria was as far away as you could get from being a US lackey, but the diplomatic case was made effectively. If Iraq is now going to be the shiny centerpiece of the New Arab World Order, it's not a good start when we couldn't get positive forms of support from even our most lap-bound doggies.

	19-04-2003 02:21									#34
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quote: Canada and Mexico could pose a danger.

We have an evil frenchman leading our nation. Clearly the people of Canada must be liberated from the enemies of freedom and democracy.

Or how about the 'Canada harbours terrorists' line.
That is why they were unwilling to help with Iraq, because they harbour members of Al-Qaida and other terrorist organisations.

Let's end this war here, with Iraq.

NO invasion of Syria.

	19-04-2003 02:25									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi We took out Iraq before they posed a danger. We got them before they got nukes that could harm us.

So what do we do in five years if the "democratically elected" and no-longer sanctioned or sanctionable Iraqi government that succeeds our "provisional" government (assuming it really becomes provisional, i.e. we keep the choke chain tight on Chalabi, et al) decides that the best way to maintain it's security and sovereignty is to build nukes?

A new Iraqi government is not going to agree (nor would the UNSC ) that it is bound in perpetuity to externally imposed arms restrictions made against the Hussein regime.

Once normal commercial and military activity starts up in Iraq, they're going to be just as able as was Pakistan to surprise the hell out of us with their own nuke program, if they so choose.

	19-04-2003 04:39									#36
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quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Che Yes Virginia, our government is that dumb

Virginia's government is that dumb. A Month after filing and I still don't see my freaking $ 300.

	19-04-2003 04:43									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Maryland could pose a danger if it ever decided to secede. It could capture the capital within minutes.

Wutang!

	19-04-2003 05:03									#38
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quote: Yes Virginia, our government is that dumb

Maybe that's why they refer to it as representative democracy...

	19-04-2003 05:11									#39
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You can of course highlight instances where people and children lost limbs and family and suffered immense trauma as the result of any war.

Does anyone think that there weren't similar stories out of world war 2 concerning orphaned kids and maimed people of all ages?

Yet, no one would consider such stories as an argument against that war.

If you ask me, the US went out of it's way to minimize civilian death and injury. Of course there will be some.

I don't mean to argue with anyone who is against the war, because if you are against it for purely non-political reasons, I totally respect that.

War sucks for all involved, but I must say that presenting cases of kids who lost there families as a reason to bash the US is flimsy.

Wars ALWAYS wreaks havoc. Of course the trauma inflicted on anyone in the combat zone is bad, but compared to the way war was handled in years passed (carpet bombing cities, invasion of artillery and ground forces with little respect to civilians), I can't understand how anyone can accuse the US of indiscrimently throwing bombs at cities and civilians in order to achieve victory.

The Marines that were killed by Iraqi's faking surrender proves that care is taken to non-combatants. They could have shot them on site, but instead were killed for there consideration.

The fact that there are even Iraqi's protesting proves that the US took great care in it's tactics. If not, those Iraqi's would be dead or in total shock and total mourning at the loss of life.

Total death could have very easily been inflicted if the US was as evil a country as some would like you to believe.

	19-04-2003 05:15									#40
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Canada and Mexico could pose a danger.

Che, you actually had a very strong case until this part. It single-handedly destroyed your position.

I still find it funny when people admit to waffling around with extremes in the politics, and they debate politics. I think it says a lot about how they think, if they pick something and switch to the complete opposite shortly after...

You used to be a Republican and are now Communist, right?

	19-04-2003 05:17									#41
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As usual most of the people attempting to find fault with the U.S. military over look the absolute crimes commited by the other side. The U.S. positively bent over backwards to try to minimize civilian casualties even while the Iraqis were purposefully placing their military equipment in schools, hospitals, universities, etc...

	19-04-2003 05:20									#42
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quote: Originally posted by vee4473 War sucks for all involved, but I must say that presenting cases of kids who lost there families as a reason to bash the US is flimsy.

That's exactly right.

The anti-war effort is based around:

	19-04-2003 06:17									#43
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You and vee are missing the point. The war is a done deal, it's over with, except for the unsexy details of occupation, etc.

The problem is Arab and particularly Iraqi perception, and whether the net result is going to be a substantial enough improvement in the security situation to justify the war that's already been fought.

Winning the war is a joke - the strongest military in the world against an inept, underequipped and unmotivated third world army, most of which never showed up to fight?

That's what most of the Cheney-thumpers from the right-wing scratch and sniff crowd are standing around congratulating themselves on - YEAH, WE DONE KICKED ASS, USA USA USA you can all kiss our asses blah blah blah.

It's a little bit more of a stretch to conclude that we're solidly on the way to happy little Arabs contentendly pumping their oil to us while praising us for their democratization.

	19-04-2003 07:11									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That's exactly right. The anti-war effort is based around: Oh no, some civilians died. That means the war is not worth it. Oh no, Saddam isn't a threat to anyone. It's not like he's ever invaded anyone before, or used chemical weapons, or defied UN resolutions for a dozen years. Oh no, this war is about oil!!! Oh no, this war is about setting up a US puppet government in another nation so we can get the oil easier!! They're all funny in their own ways, but the sad thing is so many people believe them. :/

kinda like the reasons for going to war