19-04-2003 10:58									#61
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quote: Why?

Essentially, you're saying that the reasons for a war become irrelevant after it has been fought and won. Does that mean that the American government can undertake any military action it wants, as long as it 'wins'?

There has to be a valid reason that the war was fought, a valid reason why people had to die. The fact that a war was 'won' does not make it noble, and the only way we can truly know if it was the right course of action is if we know the reasons for which the war was originally started.

	19-04-2003 11:08									#62
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If you were being tortured with electricity to your head (and other areas) every day, do you think you would care about the technical justification for your release?

	19-04-2003 11:15									#63
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf Did we ask? Are we the only ones who didn't like those "leaders"?

You were in minority who wanted this war. The rest of UN security concil were against. That's why you acted without UN, because it was absolutely clear that UN wouldn't support this war.
And btw, bad leaders, good leaders- it is not the reason for war. That's what all countries agreed when UN was founded. What you did it's clearly AGGRESSION against independent country in accordance with UN charter.
So, once again who gave USA right to violate international laws?

Russian Federation is very unhappy about leaders of three Baltic states and very unhappy how Russians are treated in those countries. So, in accordance with your logic we can invade them, install there loyal regimes and it will be Ok if will do it fast.

	19-04-2003 11:19									#64
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf If you were being tortured with electricity to your head (and other areas) every day, do you think you would care about the technical justification for your release?

If your only child have been slain by American bomb, your house have been destroyed by American tank, and your whole country have been occupied by foreign aggressors who had started to pump out oil from your country, do you think you would care about the technical justification for their invasion in your country?

	19-04-2003 11:22									#65
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Go for it!

As for minority views, yes, those are generally the correct views.

As for your signature, I think that fish and people can, in fact, coexist.

	19-04-2003 11:25									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Serb If your only child have been slain by American bomb, your house have been destroyed by American tank, and your whole country have been occupied by foreign aggressors who had started to pump out oil from your country, do you think you would care about the technical justification for their invasion in your country?

No. I'd be angry, but the invasion would still be right. The irony of life is that often the particular is bad, and the general is good.

	19-04-2003 11:35									#67
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf As for minority views, yes, those are generally the correct views.

Great aproach. Very democratic. Very American.

quote: As for your signature, I think that fish and people can, in fact, coexist.

The funny thing about this claim is that it is in fact Bush speech on one of the environmentalist's meetings.
Oh common it's funny as hell. Just imagine absolutely serious Bush proclaiming those fascinating words.

	19-04-2003 11:41									#68
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Yes, I see, you think the Siberians know much more about democracy than we do. Well, good luck with that!

	19-04-2003 11:51									#69
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf No. I'd be angry, but the invasion would still be right.

Really? Why? Because America decided this?
You called this war- operation Iraqi freedom. It's impossible to bring freedom to people by killing their children, by destroying their houses, by killing themselves, and by replacing their dictator with bunch of your dictators who let you rob Iraqi oil freely.

quote: The irony of life is that often the particular is bad, and the general is good.

The irony of outside life (outside of USA) is that often what Americans think is good, other people think is bad and otherwise.

	19-04-2003 11:58									#70
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf Yes, I see, you think the Siberians know much more about democracy than we do. Well, good luck with that!

Sure we do.
Just look at your last elections. The result of this elections isn't surprising consider that Americans like you think that "As for minority views, yes, those are generally the correct views. "

American democracy sucks.

	19-04-2003 12:12									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Where, when and how you found a single Kornet? You're just repeating words of your leadership which complained at the beginning of war that "we are doing not so well as we expected, because evil Russian sold some of their modern weaponry to Iraq. Blahblahblah. we know this but we have no proofs. blahblahblah.

How long has it taken you people to still be ****ing around in Chechnya? Funny, I don't recall any US leadership blaming Russian weapons for any delays (we'd actually have to have incurred significant losses).

quote: If your leadership was unable to prove that Iraqis have Kornets, I doubt YOU can do this.

Russian websites were bragging about it, but I suppose you're right, Russia hasn't sold to the Iraqis any weapons systems worth a ****, because Russian weapons systems worth a **** is an oxymoron.

	19-04-2003 12:12									#72
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What more can one say. The tradition of Siberian democracy speaks for itself.

	19-04-2003 13:23									#73
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat How long has it taken you people to still be ****ing around in Chechnya?

No one ****ing around in Chechnya since very long time. Active military actions lasted there a couple of months and aside you we have balls to fight in mountains not only in deserts where air superiority decides everything.
About 1 month ago there was referendum where absolute majority (more then 90%) of people of Chechnya accepted new constitution (which says that Chechnya is part of Russian Federation), the law about president and parliament elections. Soon there will be elections.

quote: Funny, I don't recall any US leadership blaming Russian weapons for any delays (we'd actually have to have incurred significant losses).

Yeah right. US military didn't lost a single tank, helicopter or soldier and everything went just as your strategists planned.

quote: Russian websites were bragging about it,

L I N K?
Btw, do you read Russian?

quote: but I suppose you're right, Russia hasn't sold to the Iraqis any weapons systems worth a ****, because Russian weapons systems worth a **** is an oxymoron.

I see you are an expert.

	19-04-2003 17:37									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Serb American democracy sucks.

On a related note, Powell (whom I generally like, and for whom I will soon be working) was quoted as saying that the job of the US was now to "impose democracy on Iraq."

Show of hands, please: who here can tell me what's wrong with the phrase "impose democracy"? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

	19-04-2003 19:52									#75
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf Regarding your signature: Indeed, we see the need and respond. Do you realize that there were CHILDREN IN PRISON in Iraq?

And do you know why they were there?

Isn´t it possible that they commited crimes, such as robbing or murfering and therefore served a prison sentence?

Many countries, among them the United States, put children into prison if they have commited serious crimes

	19-04-2003 21:49									#76
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I find it very hard to believe that a people that doesn't know what it wants("Come here and save us from saddam" No! Wait! Leave!) is going to being to be able to form a Fully-Functional, Autonomous, Democracy (tm) in any way, shape, or form.

What a cluster****.

	19-04-2003 21:54									#77
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave I find it very hard to believe that a people that doesn't know what it wants("Come here and save us from saddam" No! Wait! Leave!) is going to being to be able to form a Fully-Functional, Autonomous, Democracy (tm) in any way, shape, or form.

Two things:

1. They know what they want. They don't like Saddam and they don't like US troops. Just because they don't like Saddam, doen't mean they like the US.

2. Just because they know what they want doesn't mean they want a democracy.

	19-04-2003 21:57									#78
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf Oh, honestly, who cares? Saddam is gone. Does the reason we went really matter anymore? Or should we say "Oops, sorry Saddam, here is your country back, go ahead and rape and torture as you were?"

1. A lot of people care.
2. Yes, the reason matters. We now know the US doesn't have the faintest idea wrt Iraqi NCB weapons, at least in terms of location, quantity, and type of weapons. Now we need to know how much more of what Bush & Co. uttered was pure crap.

	19-04-2003 22:10									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly On a related note, Powell (whom I generally like, and for whom I will soon be working) was quoted as saying that the job of the US was now to "impose democracy on Iraq." Show of hands, please: who here can tell me what's wrong with the phrase "impose democracy"? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

Democracy can't be imposed?

Like, it has to be won dude ya know

	19-04-2003 22:31									#80
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quote: Democracy can't be imposed?

Tell that to the Japanese and the Germans.

	19-04-2003 22:32									#81
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They earned it.
And certaintly didn't do it for the first time.

	20-04-2003 01:02									#82
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"I truly must question the judgment of any President who can say that a massive unprovoked military attack on a nation which is over 50% children is 'in the highest moral traditions of our country.'" -- Sen. Robert Byrd, 12.02.03

You should quote his Klan rantings, they are just as relivent.
So, he's a hero of yours?

	20-04-2003 01:27									#83
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quote: And certaintly didn't do it for the first time.

That's a debatable statement in Japan's case...

	20-04-2003 01:30									#84
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What's not debatable though is that Iraq has always been in stability when a dictator was in power.

I'm not saying that democracy in Iraq is not possible, but it might not be what the US would like.

	20-04-2003 01:39									#85
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quote: What's not debatable though is that Iraq has always been in stability when a dictator was in power.

So was Greece.

quote: I'm not saying that democracy in Iraq is not possible, but it might not be what the US would like.

What does this have to do with anything? You said democracy can't be imposed. I gave you two examples of when it was imposed and worked out. You responded with some inane statement about them "deserving it". It's pretty clear I was right, so what the hell are we talking about now?

	20-04-2003 01:44									#86
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So was Greece? Hardly.

We're talking about Iraq not having a democracy ever and you wanting to impose it.

Clearly that's what's inane.

The first thing a democracy would say is get the hell out of here and watch after its own interests. Which are not your own.

	20-04-2003 01:47									#87
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quote: The first thing a democracy would say is get the hell out of here and watch after its own interests. Which are not your own.

What exactly is the reasoning behind this statement?

Wait a minute. Did I just ask paiktis for "reasoning"?

	20-04-2003 01:50									#88
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LOL...

yeah and I'm talking with an american

	20-04-2003 01:52									#89
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What you basically need is some more 11 Septs, then you'll wise up

	20-04-2003 01:56									#90
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There's the troll we all know and love.