19-04-2003 04:24									#1
	ToT Forum Slowly Dying? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It's been ages since I posted here. Looks the same for everyone else too.
Oh, well if there's anyone still checking in here, lets get a MP game on the go sometime, yeah?

I think I'll make one last ToT scenario as well, I miss the ease of scenario creation now that I'm mainly on Civ3:PtW

	19-04-2003 06:47									#2
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Nooo... just when I got ToT, the forum is about to die.

	19-04-2003 07:02									#3
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we ToTers should really band together. Start PBEMs or something

	19-04-2003 08:07									#4
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I've got a scenario brewing, but it needs some tweaking before I beg for more playtesters. Any of you interested at that point?



It's got ANZACs in it, and it's designed by someone in Jersey.

	19-04-2003 13:26									#5
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ANZAC,

I could actually second that suggestion, despite I'm not an expert with ToT.

	19-04-2003 18:16									#6
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I would be interested in playtesting it. Though I don't know how much time I could put into it though

Rasbelin: a few more people and we can open up a second PBEM of some scenario: got any ideas?

	19-04-2003 22:31									#7
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There are some excellent sci-fi scenarios available in Test of Time, some very suitable for multiplayer. One by Kestrel, LUSOAC for Land-Undersea-whatever... looks very suitable for multiplayer. It's a remake of the extended original game, adding an undersea and space map to the earth and Alpha Centauri ones. There are 3 versions, but the middle one has the late start option, allowing players to start with 2-3 cities. 6 can play, as it wouldn't work with the Gazpichi (aliens) as a human player.

If 5 others are willing to play a PBEM game, I'd be willing to get it started as the Romans. Other civs are Babylon, Vikings, Aztecs, Chinese and Carthaginians. LUSOAC and other excellent ToT scenarios are available at the Cradle of Civilization site, here: http://coc.apolyton.net/scenarios/scn-lusoac.shtml

	20-04-2003 10:21									#8
	Got spare money?

Boco: I would also be interested in playtesting your scenario if you don't mind. Just let me know when you are ready.

tecumseh: I might be able to join another PBEM game if there is still a spot open after two weeks. There is a little hitch called university final exams I need to get out of the way first.

	21-04-2003 20:36									#9
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TOT will not die as it is the best version of Civ 2, has the most scenairo design features and most game options. Unfortunately not enough people bought it, so some designers have gone back to MGE or tried Civ 3. We need to get them back, let them know that there is still a demand for TOT scenarios and games.

	27-04-2003 16:12									#10
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Tot dying? NO WAY

quote: Unfortunately not enough people bought it, so some designers have gone back to MGE or tried Civ 3.

I'm not sure it has to do only with the number of players: i think some designers left Tot for MGE or Civ3 because Tot lacks scenario editors.
It's way too difficult to create a whole scenario without any tool helping in the task, this is true in FW, and is especially true in Tot since it has a lot of new features.

Without scenario editing tools probably we will never be able to attract scenario designers and without scenario designers we will never be able to attract players, period.

There were a couple of projects (namely CivCAD and CivEdit... someone remembers them ) that tried to fill the gap but, and i'm talking for CivCAD since i was the administrator, the task was too ambitious, developers (me too), lacked interest in it, and it was placed on hold indefinitely (i don't write it's over because i'm an optimistic guy and because i don't like to admit i've failed... )

A more feasible way was the one proposed by Mercator some time ago (i hope to remember well) a sort of hex-editing library able to manage FW/MGE scenarios as well as Tot scenarios in a developer transparent manner.
In this way, we could spread the library between FW/MGE tools developers and when they release a new version of their tool it will be already Tot compatible.

Unfortunately this year went as it went, and i was unable to find the time needed to complete any of the civ related projects/ideas i've in mind and i've no idea if things will change in future but, if you think that Tot community can be helped by playing a PBEM (ANZAC) or by playtesting a scenario (Boco), for sure count me in.

P.S. techumseh, i noticed that Cradle of Civ is down, is this a permanent thing or it will come back?

	27-04-2003 18:40									#11
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I didn't notice it. Perhaps it's just part of the maintenence thing that's been happening at Poly. William?

	27-04-2003 22:15									#12
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Hey Angelo!

The cradle is still available, but only at http://apolyton.net/coc. I don't know if that's permanent or not...

* quickly retreats before anyone starts asking questions about civ2 utilities (including CivCAD ...um ) *

	28-04-2003 01:11									#13
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quote: * quickly retreats before anyone starts asking questions about civ2 utilities (including CivCAD ...um ) *

There's hot pursuit!

Good to hear from you guys, again!

	28-04-2003 04:56									#14
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I:‚à‚Æ‚©‚É—˜—��@ŽèŒû‰¼‚ÌŒF‚Æ‚µ�j‚ÌŽs‚Í‚µ‚Ílkjlkj what the hel.

VERY MANY VERY BAD WORDS AT THIS JAPANESE KEYBOARD!!!!

I:m still interested in TOT by the way. I was working on a vague Star Wars game that can only really be played Multiplayer (the AI just can:t handle the naval warfare involved). I was also making a real world scenario also for multiplayer where all humans play as Russia, EU, India, or China and work against Democratic Neutrals, Islamic Neutrals, and America.

I was playing a game called Taasen (find it at unicornjelly.com) and the idea struck me that you could have turns where people decide to forgo their "chosen" Civ and play one turn as another civ instead. So somebody who wants to play as the EU could skip his turn as EU and play America. THis would mean he:s got a very powerful military at his disposal for one turn, but would also leave his nation completely at the mercy of a counterattack from anybody else.

In most real life scens I:ve made, America is usually extremely powerful and thus is unsuitable for any one person to control. I:m looking forward to testing this proposal out with live Human Intelligences.

	28-04-2003 05:31									#15
	Got spare money?

I look forward to trying your scenarios. I've also got a large body of unfinished work, inluding a multi player WWII scenario, a US-Iraq scenario, and a couple based on Edgar Rice Burroughs - "Barsoom" and "Lord of the Jungle."

	28-04-2003 20:43									#16
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ToT lives!


Never mind Civ III, ToT still reigns supreme as the best Civ game ever.

To all the scenario builders out there: you still have an audience! Your work is appriciated

	29-04-2003 01:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator Hey Angelo!

Hey Mercator!

quote: The cradle is still available, but only at http://apolyton.net/coc. I don't know if that's permanent or not...

Great, thank you for the info.

quote: * quickly retreats before anyone starts asking questions about civ2 utilities (including CivCAD ...um ) *

Run! Run! he has nearly caught us!!!

quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia the idea struck me that you could have turns where people decide to forgo their "chosen" Civ and play one turn as another civ instead.

Yes, it is one of the CSPL examples i wrote in the manual and it worked like a charm so you can do it in Tot...
Poor MGE or Civ3 players without CSPL power (hope no-one notice that neither Tot has a fully working CSPL... )

	04-05-2003 06:17									#18
	Got spare money?

Hey! What happened to the PBEM game idea? I downloaded the LUSOAC scenario from the CoC, but the orbit and undersea maps are not showing up when I try to get to them. I am having this same problem in a scenario I'm designing. Does anybody know what I am talking about and why it happens?

	04-05-2003 11:00									#19
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Are you sure you have all the terrain files in the scn. folder? If you don't have from 1 to 8, they won't show up.

	05-05-2003 03:41									#20
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Can anybody enlighten me as to what CSPL is? It sounds classified.

I have good news, insofar as my sanity and free time are concerned. I am about to finish my semester and my brother Torillus is going to spend time with me at my house.

Hopefully this will mean that we get around to creating scenarios and stuff.

	05-05-2003 05:59									#21
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CPSL is a complex system which is esentially a programmable hex editor. You have to know some simple programming language ( I forget which one) and it modifies your save file WHILE you're playing.
It serves as an events system without limitations. Any data stored on the save file can be modified. It's available at the Cradle of Civilization site - if they ever get it up and running again. (hint to Dan Q.)

	05-05-2003 13:43									#22
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A few correction there...

You need to know a highly complex programming language, namely C++ (the same language used to write Civ2, and probably just about every other windows application around)... Luckily, you can probably get away with knowing just a tiny, easy subset of it.

And it doesn't change the savegame, it changes the game memory. Changes to a savegame could only ever apply when you reload, changes to the game in memory are visible immediately.

And you didn't read my previous post carefully enough... I mentioned the URL the Cradle was available at. ... And it seems most hosted sites are only available at the apolyton.net/site rather than site.apolyton.net... Even the Scenario League (how come nobody noticed that before?).

	05-05-2003 14:25									#23
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I stand corrected.

	05-05-2003 21:40									#24
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ive recently been playing the Fantasy game, though im dropping that having just bought SMAC.

TOT should still live for scenarios, though i would still tend to discuss those at creation. Some time back i mentioned that i had a lot of MGE scenarios converted (via the Scotto converter) to TOT. Ive cleaned up my hard drive, but still have some, and would be glad to send them to anybody who wants to keep them on a web site (for benefit of people who have trouble with the converter)

	06-05-2003 23:18									#25
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Which ones do you have in your collection?

	07-05-2003 07:10									#26
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh Which ones do you have in your collection?

End of the Bronze Age by Cullivan

30 years war by Munoz

1650 by Eklund

Spanish Odyssey by Munoz

Time of Thunder by J. Balsinde

Exodus by Alexandre Ostrowiecki

Moscow by Daumen

The Turks by Eklund

Visigoths by J. Balsinde


At the time I cleaned up my HD I was into early modern, and had deleted most of the ancient stuff i'd played.