20-04-2003 03:01									#1
	2 types of ocean? Increase the size of your Attachments

Is it possible by any means?
I need two types ocean but how do I create one more, beside from the one already existing?

I thought about having light and dark water (oceanwater)... and... it must be a way to make that possible...

or maybe not?

/Spader

	20-04-2003 03:28									#2
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No. Not in any way, so far as I know. You might make up for it by exploiting the fish and whale squares to some extent, or by giving a lot of units the trireme ability, depending on what you want, but I don't think what you're asking for is even remotely possible. Sorry.

	20-04-2003 05:06									#3
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Functionally different or eye candy? Elok's right about functionality - unless you want 10 types of ocean and 1 type of land.

As far as eye candy goes, you can make some ocean squares have pollution, railroads, or roads. Borders can be a bit abrupt, but it works. Take a look at Allard's River War, and examine how he made cataracts (RR) on the Nile.

	20-04-2003 15:56									#4
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okey
thanks for the replies
where can I find Allard's River War?

/Spader

	20-04-2003 17:56									#5
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go at spanish.apolyton.net and look for it at the bestonet section

	20-04-2003 21:38									#6
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It is also possible to "build" cities on ocean squares. I did this in my "Alexander the Great" scenario, which you can find on my website (or on Civfanatics, the link on my site is likely not to work). Just make an engineer terraform the terrain square a city is on to ocean. I think it can be attacked by air and naval units, but only helicopter units are capable of taking this city.

	21-04-2003 01:53									#7
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Ok, thanks Shaka I will do that.

Are you sure that will work Stefan? I mean with the "only-helicopters-can-attack-the-city-then-thingie". If so... then it would be the ultimate defence method.

/Spader

	21-04-2003 06:54									#8
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Kobayashi posted the following a while back on CivFAn.

The Invinciple Pirate Port Idea
Its basically a variation of the sleeping beauty city (for those of you unfamiliar with my scenario building tip, its a city built in the ocean where all units fall asleep as soon as they are built). Just had this fantastic idea to combine it with barbarian ownership (I have already tried it out and it works)
1. Create a settler for race A and then use it to build a port city on a grassland tile. (not the event create unit, use the cheat menu)
2. Edit the city to change its size to say 5
3. Set reveal map to barbarian.
4. Create a few barbarian warriors next to the city
5. Set player to none and hit return.
6. The barbarians will takeover the city and start producing warriors.
7. Use the terrain editor to make grassland change to ocean when you irrigate.
8. create a race A setler inside the barbarian city.
9. Activate the settler and close the city screen.
10. Order it to irrigate.
11. Disband the settler.
12. Reverse the terrain change so irrigation becomes normal again.
13. Use the unit editor to change warrior to some kind of ship
(The concept should be novel because not many people would know all the bizzare techniques I've listed let alone combine them in this sequence. However, if someone else has thought of this before, do let me know.)
a. Ships won't fall asleep so they can go hunting as soon as they are built. The city will keep churning out pirate ships.
b. Enemy ships and planes can attack but can't occupy the city.
c. Enemy land units can't attack as the city is on an ocean tile.
d. Probably the only way to takeover the city is to use helicopters. (not tested0
variations:
If you change the city style of race A to invisible, make sure no other race has the same city style and then kill off race A, you can have pirate ships appearing out of nowhere.
If you change the terrain of the surrounding land to ocean, you will have an invisible invincible pirate port which is almost impossible to find. This could also be a rift to another dimension which lets invaders in.
You can create a special way of ending the pirate threat - a quest which will result in a change in the terrain of the pirate city tile which will then erase the city.
You could also use the same concept on land if you changed the warrior unit to a plane with say 50 turns in the air.
[This message has been edited by kobayashi (edited August 06, 2001).]

	21-04-2003 11:19									#9
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Only problem is a ship need to be in the frigate slot for barbarians to ever use it offensively...

Therefore you need to take over the city with a unit from the frigate slot.

	21-04-2003 14:13									#10
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Wow. This sounds excellent.
Thanks for the post.

/Spader

	21-04-2003 19:29									#11
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Hmm...just occured to me that, if you wanted to simulate rough seas further out, you could event-generate a barbarian submarine "tidal wave" unit. The only problem would be keeping it far out at sea. Don't know if that helps.

	24-04-2003 05:12									#12
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Spader, I have an idea for 2 ocean terrains. But you need to have ToT.

The deep water would be your standard Ocean, and the shallows you be a land square with the 'impassible' attribute activated. Then you would give specific land units the 'can move over impassible terrain' ability. So with this idea, you could simulate something like D-Day, where all along the coast is shallows except right in front of cities that would be non adjacent to land. Marines would be the only unit with the ability to pass over the impassible shallows (beach) and they would land and attack the cities, which would need to be conquered before the port to open up for shipping heavier units such as tanks and montgomery's infantry divisions.

	24-04-2003 06:09									#13
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What're you up to, Spader? Is this for ToT? As Magyar shows, that increases your options a lot.

	24-04-2003 06:50									#14
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I once has an idea for a late war (44'-46')WWII sea war type scenario, that would have no land combat what so ever. The scenario would've focused on the U-boat wolf packs of the atlantic. I would have used the regular land terrain to represent various kinds of sea terrain, and I would have used special resource squares and allied "terrain units" to represent forests and mountains for gfx ambiance. There would be several different nazi fleets at work in the scenario, some using coastal ports as bases while the player civ uses Type XIV "Milk Cows" as their bases, both for repair and perhaps to reload torpedoes as per Case's Cruel Sea. The downside is that it would take forever to make the map.

Last edited by EZRhino on 24-04-2003 at 23:17

	24-04-2003 16:57									#15
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nah I dont have ToT...
This scenario Im builing on is for Civ2 MPG
Someone said you could use pollution. And I did...
It took an hour to place pollution (dark water) where I wanted it. If I then turn off pollution, which I will, then I won't have problems with global warmth and cities producing "dark water"...

but...

but If the pollution-tabg doesnt work... if the pollution-tag gives me global warming anyway... then I have to throw my PC out the window...

/Spader

	24-04-2003 17:17									#16
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You'll get global warming anyway, however the file can quite easily be hex edited to fix that.

	24-04-2003 18:11									#17
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Reading the Kobayashi quote, I remembered somtehing odd I had experienced long ago.
I played Allard's "Rise of Rome" scenario as the Romans on chieftain level back then. I took Carthage, which was to disappear via changeterrain event when the town was taken. Fact was, though it disappeared from view, the city was still there, and in my hand. You could do everything you could do with a normal city, you just couldn't see it. What's even odder, I later founded a new city on top of it!
What I didn't test back then was, is units built in the former Carthage were still there.
And: Yes, helicopters are capable of taking ocean cities, I tested this myself.

	24-04-2003 20:06									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik You'll get global warming anyway, however the file can quite easily be hex edited to fix that.

yeah? how?

/Spader

	24-04-2003 20:20									#19
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=50848

	24-04-2003 20:24									#20
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Thanks but the message will still appear.
Scenario trashed.
Thread closed.

/Spader

	25-04-2003 06:42									#21
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Just the GW message or the effects, too?

What about the RR or mining over water?

Also, have you experimented with Mercator's CivEngineer that changes terrain attributes of many squares in one shot? E.g. change all pollution tiles to mining tiles.

	25-04-2003 09:52									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel Reading the Kobayashi quote, I remembered somtehing odd I had experienced long ago. I played Allard's "Rise of Rome" scenario as the Romans on chieftain level back then. I took Carthage, which was to disappear via changeterrain event when the town was taken. Fact was, though it disappeared from view, the city was still there, and in my hand. You could do everything you could do with a normal city, you just couldn't see it. What's even odder, I later founded a new city on top of it! What I didn't test back then was, is units built in the former Carthage were still there. And: Yes, helicopters are capable of taking ocean cities, I tested this myself.

There is a civ2 bug if you try to replace a city with water... it remains there. Replace it with land first and then water.

	25-04-2003 10:13									#23
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Yes the message will appear (I'd just edit it to say something else it's in the game.txt). But even though the message appears no new pollution appears, no terrain changes.

	27-04-2003 14:57									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Hmm...just occured to me that, if you wanted to simulate rough seas further out, you could event-generate a barbarian submarine "tidal wave" unit. The only problem would be keeping it far out at sea. Don't know if that helps.

Interesting idea!

Got another idea, if one doesn't want to use the trireme flag or barb units for storms etc.

To simulate storms, use change-terrain events in large bodies of ocean, from ocean to ocean, which will wipe out all ships in the relevant area. Can be used to keep players unsure of large oceans, unless they want to be at risk. -could be used as a random event or something more carefully planned, i.e. specific storms that set in historically... using it in a large area could be devastating for a great fleet, if it doesn't keep out of this area. -this event has the great advantage of keeping small waters comparatively safe; could be used in combination with or without the trireme flag.

Gonna test this idea in my Armada scenario and see how it plays out !