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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-PtW Democracy Game > C3PtWDG Legoland > Happiness: Wonders, Luxuries, and all that Improvement
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Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 03:03
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Happiness: Wonders, Luxuries, and all that Improvement Got spare money?

We are approaching the next of the three true eras in Civ3: The era of cities. We will no longer be operating size 6 towns, but rather size 12 cities, and we must find a way to keep these newly overcrowded citizens happy. Here are some scenarios:

#1 Temple, Market, 5 luxuries
Shield investment per city: 160 shields
This is a pretty quick way to keep pop 12 cities happy. Unfortunately, it is neither efficient nor likely; the 5th luxury "wastes" two of its three happy faces on citizens that don't need it, and we'd have to trade for 4 luxuries (and we would then be dependant on other civs - note the plural!). This would have been nice if we'd been even luckier and gotten more luxuries, but as it is, we have to go with something else

#2 Temple, Cath, Col, 2 luxuries
Shield investment per city: 340 shields
Another bad idea. While our cities will be solid so long as we keep 1 luxury being imported, the shield cost is way too high; and Colosseums are a waste anyway. The cost per city raises to 440 when you add in markets, and that's still without libraries.

#3 Temple, Cath, Market, 3 luxuries
Shield investment per city: 320 shields
Also a high shield cost, but keep in mind we'll want lots of markets anyway, so the true cost is realy 220 for the Temple and Cath. We'll be dependant on two luxuries, but IIRC, Estonia has two, so if Vox holds up to its talk of close alliance...
In short, this seems to me the best anti-wonder choice

#4 JS Bach's, Temple, Market, 4 luxuries
Shield investment per city: 160 shields
Not much better than the first alternative due to the need for 3 imported luxes, but a possibility if we miss Sistines and get Bach's.

#5 JS Bach's, Temple, Cathedral, Market, 2 luxuries
Shield investment per city: 320 shields
Basically #2/#3, but with Bach's taking the place of the Col/Luxury.

#6 Sistine's, Temple, Cath, 1 luxury
Shield investment per city: 220 shields
At first glance, this looks great. We don't have to import a single luxury. But remember one key thing: we want markets to increase our income, regardless of the luxury situation. So this is basically #3 again, just without foreign luxuries.

So: Two luxuries take the place of Sistine's. 1 Luxury takes the place of Bach's. I'm beginning to think neither wonder is as valuable as we thought, especially Bach's. Sistine's is still a worthy goal, but if Vox is truly serious about becoming our ally, Estonia's luxuries will tide us over till we get it, and we'll hopefully have some more luxuries of our own by the time Hospitals roll around (heck, the game might be over). And I'd rather spend the shields on Bach's elsewhere. Of course, all of this depends on Vox being able to trade us two luxuries.

Over the next 20 turns or so, we need to decide what happiness route to take; Legopolis will be close to wonder-ready by then. Personally, I say trust Vox and assume 3 luxuries; that will free up our cities, Legopolis especially, immensely. But we will be dependant on a foreign civ for the first time; if Vox betrays us before we have the Sistine's, or if we can't dissuade someone from building the Sistine's, we'll be in trouble. What's your opinion?

redstar1 is offline redstar1
Prince
Belfast, Northern Ireland
Apr 2001
time: 05:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 13:52
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Good analysis.... I'd be inclined to go for the Sistine Chapel option, but also do our best to keep another option or two open in case things do not go to plan..

Tiberius is offline Tiberius

Emperor
Europe
Jan 2000
time: 06:27
  Old Post 20-04-2003 15:41
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We will build markets anyway, for the gold bonus, so I wouldn't really count their cost in the happiness ecuation.

Nr.6 is great because it makes us immune to foreign embargoes; we are vulnerable in facing a luxury embargo, while apparently we can find all the other resources on Legos (most of them, anyway). Besides, the more luxuries and happiness improvements, the better. Don't forget that if we manage to keep our cities in "WLT...Days", it will reduce corruption (and waste?, I'm not sure). So if we can build both wonders, great. We shall see how can we do without 2 productive cities. If we need them for military production, then maybe we will skip one of the wonders or build something else instead (like Magellan's).

Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 21-04-2003 01:20
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Yes, as I said in the analyses, the markets shouldn't really be counted as a cost; but I figured I'd include them anyway. It's easy to subtract it from the cost figure; the cost of a marketplace is 100 shields.

It's true that WLTKD will help our cities. But keep in mind we'd need to have both happiness wonders and 2-3 imported luxuries (without Bach's/Sistine's, we'd have one/two unhappy citizens, and I don't want to build Colosseums just for WLTKD); I don't see both of those things (especially the wonders) happening for a long while. Don't get me wrong, it would definitely be great to get both wonders, but I think our shields would be better spent on something other than Bachs. We'd also save ourselves the trouble of an otherwise useless tech (Music Theory).

lmtoops is offline lmtoops
King
Dallas, Texas
Mar 2002
time: 23:27
  Old Post 21-04-2003 08:01
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I would perfer #6, so we do not rely on other civs to keep our cities happy. I trust Vox, but at some point they will want to win the game or at least try to win. This is an advantage we can take away from them.

vondrack is offline vondrack

Emperor
Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 09:40
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I believe that for the moment, all we need to decide is that we will go for at least one happiness wonder (as other options are quite costly or risky). Let's assume it will be Sistine - if we miss it, we can always switch to Bach's later on.

I agree that we should try becoming independent from other civs... though keep in mind that the luxury slider may be used to adjust unhappiness at any time (using Marketplaces as the source of gold being spent).

ZargonX is offline ZargonX
Emperor
Space
Sep 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 09:44
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Yes, aiming for Sistene now is a good path to take. It helps that GS got screwed with their wonder, so we have a better shot at it now. Let's get some people happy!

Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 09:45
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Yes, the lux slider is always a good fallback, but it's inefficient in such a large empire, so I'd prefer to keep it under control with luxes, then Sistine's later in the game.

Edit: And yes, we should aim for Sistines. I'm a little worried about ND, but I'm not sure if anyone besides our luxury-poor team or a Religious team would go for Sistine's; Bach's will probably have much more competition, since you don't need to build Cathedrals for it.

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