21-04-2003 06:09									#1
	Subnormal challenge Got spare money?

The Subnormal level challenge ….

I thought that Beginner was tough. But Subnormal is a lot worse. The game I am playing is getting very tough (Subnormal intelligence). I don't know if there's still hope for me to beat the game. Since it is a lot easier to understand the situation I’m in by looking at the saved game itself, I have uploaded the saved game (nsg.zip)for anyone who's willing to give me a few hints as to how to beat the game I am currently in. I don't understand why the Altaran starships are so durable. They have a lot of hit points compared to mine. Any ideas as to why?

As you can see in the saved game, there is a large Altaran Overlord escorted by two Rangers and two Dreadnought ships heading for my star systems. Can anyone tell me what to do about this? Is there anyone out there who plays at a higher level than Beginner and won? I desperately need some advice from the Galciv community. Beginner is ok but is totally weird. I have to admit though that Beginner level is a little harder than the Civ 2 AI at Prince level. The Subnormal level was harder than I ever imagined (harder than the Emperor level in Civ 2). This game seems to use an algorithm similar to the ones used in high level chess games. I have played those in the past and I noticed that in this Galciv game. I don’t even want to think what the AI could do at Normal level.

I've heard that the BonusPak and the patches have improved the game's AI. So I really don't want to use it. The game is hard enough as it is. I am only playing two Subnormal civs in this game. The Drengins and the Altarans. The rest who were Beginners had been eliminated. I did try to play all as Subnormal level but it was too hard so I just tried two of them. The Drengins and the Altarans. And it was a real challenge already.

Also, is there anyway that I can borrow a few starships (my best ones) from another Galciv game that I won into this saved game. I really need those starships! Especially the ones with a defence value above 100 and an attack strength of 50. Sigh ...

Attachment: nsg.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	21-04-2003 07:54									#2
	Re: Subnormal challenge Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by civer3 I've heard that the BonusPak and the patches have improved the game's AI. So I really don't want to use it. The game is hard enough as it is. I am only playing two Subnormal civs in this game. The Drengins and the Altarans. The rest who were Beginners had been eliminated. I did try to play all as Subnormal level but it was too hard so I just tried two of them. The Drengins and the Altarans. And it was a real challenge already.

Yes, the AI is improved, but that doesn't mean that it's *harder*. In fact, the latest 1.02 patch makes the AI easier on Sub-Normal and lower levels. Also in many of the patches are things like making it easier to keep morale up, making social improvements cheaper and so on. Just check the sticky up top to see all the updates.

I don't know what to tell you for advice. Keep playing beginner until you get in a grove. I killed the AI at beginner, and playing my first sub-normal game now and while I started out slower I am now killing the AI civs again. Dregen are gone and the Yor and I are wiping out the Alterians and Torians. The Arceans are my buds and also helping out. I was making this game as a technology victory but got a little bored and ticked off when the Alterians attacked a minor civ that I was trading with. So I quickly pumped out some combat transports and Rangers and am quickly wiping the floor with them.

I'm now just going to secure my sectors, let the Yor have the top part of the map and go back to working on a tech victory. Large galaxy by the way.

Here is one piece of advice: Economy is EVERYTHING, at least on large maps. You must trade, trade, trade. Get your max 10 trade routes going with trade starbases along your routes. In this game I had over 7000 in the bank when I went to war. Was pulling in 2000+ a month just in trade routes not counting the 1000+ in tribute I was getting. From your posts you seem to be worried *way* too much about military (unless you want to win that way). Personally in the early game all I have is 2 survey ships and a few defenders in my core systems. Then later on I just get a battle axe or battle hammer to defend each star system and key starbase. No one really messes with me and if they do, my economy is running so well that I can easily pump out tons of battleships or dreads to beat back whatever is coming my way.

But, next game I'm moving up to normal or higher AI level and see if I get my butt kicked or not.

	21-04-2003 08:09									#3
	Tired of ads?

I looked at your saved game. At least now I know my machine can't handle a map that large very well.

Ok dude, I'm not sure what you are complaining about. You are kicking butt! You are just 3-4 techs away from a technology victory for crying out loud!!! However the problem is that you have all methods of victory turned off except military.

I think it would be VERY difficult to win by conquest on the gigantic maps. If you want to do a conquest only game that won't take you forever, you should probably play on a much smaller map (large or smaller). I can't see ever winning this game of yours unless you spend the next few months at it.

So two things:
1) Turn on the other victory options
2) Make your map smaller if you want conquest only victory (at least for now).

	21-04-2003 14:36									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

From a (very) quick glance at your save game, I think you should
a) spend more money
b) spend more money on research
c) build some trade routes (maybe the save game screwed them up, though, as you seem to have none at all)

	25-04-2003 06:47									#5
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Todd Hawks From a (very) quick glance at your save game, I think you should a) spend more money b) spend more money on research c) build some trade routes (maybe the save game screwed them up, though, as you seem to have none at all)

Totally agree with that. Running out of money though.

	25-04-2003 07:00									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by bonscott I looked at your saved game. At least now I know my machine can't handle a map that large very well. Ok dude, I'm not sure what you are complaining about. You are kicking butt! You are just 3-4 techs away from a technology victory for crying out loud!!! However the problem is that you have all methods of victory turned off except military. I think it would be VERY difficult to win by conquest on the gigantic maps. If you want to do a conquest only game that won't take you forever, you should probably play on a much smaller map (large or smaller). I can't see ever winning this game of yours unless you spend the next few months at it. So two things: 1) Turn on the other victory options 2) Make your map smaller if you want conquest only victory (at least for now).

I wouldn't say I am relying on a military victory. I am using it to keep me alive and to stop the Evil Chipmunks from extorting money from me. Tech Victory is quite difficult as I am behind and rather low on cash. Cultural victory has been impossible since the Altarans built the Hyper Distribution Centre. In the beginning, I did not intend for this to happen. Only started after the Altarans declared war on me for no reason at all. But you're right about one thing. This is going to be a long war. I am not overly fond of Conquest type victories. I played this game only to see how well my planets grew and all that. I seldom built military ships in most games to attack other civs. I hate the morale factor. They go down way too quickly. Can you win if you were in my position?

	25-04-2003 07:13									#7
	Re: Re: Subnormal challenge Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by bonscott Yes, the AI is improved, but that doesn't mean that it's *harder*. In fact, the latest 1.02 patch makes the AI easier on Sub-Normal and lower levels. Also in many of the patches are things like making it easier to keep morale up, making social improvements cheaper and so on. Just check the sticky up top to see all the updates. I don't know what to tell you for advice. Keep playing beginner until you get in a grove. I killed the AI at beginner, and playing my first sub-normal game now and while I started out slower I am now killing the AI civs again. Dregen are gone and the Yor and I are wiping out the Alterians and Torians. The Arceans are my buds and also helping out. I was making this game as a technology victory but got a little bored and ticked off when the Alterians attacked a minor civ that I was trading with. So I quickly pumped out some combat transports and Rangers and am quickly wiping the floor with them. I'm now just going to secure my sectors, let the Yor have the top part of the map and go back to working on a tech victory. Large galaxy by the way. Here is one piece of advice: Economy is EVERYTHING, at least on large maps. You must trade, trade, trade. Get your max 10 trade routes going with trade starbases along your routes. In this game I had over 7000 in the bank when I went to war. Was pulling in 2000+ a month just in trade routes not counting the 1000+ in tribute I was getting. From your posts you seem to be worried *way* too much about military (unless you want to win that way). Personally in the early game all I have is 2 survey ships and a few defenders in my core systems. Then later on I just get a battle axe or battle hammer to defend each star system and key starbase. No one really messes with me and if they do, my economy is running so well that I can easily pump out tons of battleships or dreads to beat back whatever is coming my way. But, next game I'm moving up to normal or higher AI level and see if I get my butt kicked or not.

I killed the AI at beginner too. No, It was the Fundamentalists who did that. They wasted all the other civs leaving me to win by default. Strange victory.

	25-04-2003 07:41									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by civer3 I wouldn't say I am relying on a military victory. I am using it to keep me alive and to stop the Evil Chipmunks from extorting money from me. Tech Victory is quite difficult as I am behind and rather low on cash. Cultural victory has been impossible since the Altarans built the Hyper Distribution Centre. In the beginning, I did not intend for this to happen. Only started after the Altarans declared war on me for no reason at all. But you're right about one thing. This is going to be a long war. I am not overly fond of Conquest type victories. I played this game only to see how well my planets grew and all that. I seldom built military ships in most games to attack other civs. I hate the morale factor. They go down way too quickly. Can you win if you were in my position?

You aren't understanding. You don't even have a Tech victory or culture victory as an option. You have those victory paths turned off in this game. You couldn't win that way if you wanted to. But maybe it appears that they are turned off to me because I have a fully patched game and you do not and it messes with the game when loaded.

So with only military only option I'd say no, you can't win in the position you are in unless you spend the next month playing and get lucky. But if you declare peace, get 10 trade routes going, trade like crazy, get an actual economy going, then you could build up a miltary and start taking things over one system at a time.

Start a new game I would say.