24-04-2003 07:53									#1
	Religious Cleansing in the region of ICV Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The nations of ICV and other simular regions have the stated goal of destroying all religion in the world. The ICV has been conduction Religious Cleansing of their people. The USJ has tried to stop these crimes against humanity by paying for their realease.

They have currently decided to stop the transfer of religious prisoners to us, and we in turn stop the transfer of money. These regions pose a grave threat to the world and their crimes must be punished.

We realize a war with the ICV would result in millions dead, but something has to be done.

There are many growing threats in the world in the Regions that surround our freedom loving region. We must now unite as one if we are to defend ourselves against these and other future threats.

Thank you for you time.

(here is the link:http://www.nationstates.net/forum/v...p=253557#253557 )

	24-04-2003 08:48									#2
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A war to destroy religion will cause major disruption to legitimate interests. Praetor Shinzon of Dakmoristan opposes the ICV's position for this reason.

	24-04-2003 08:55									#3
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Going to war with the ICV over this would, to be blunt, be a very stupid idea. Such a war would result in millions of deaths and most likely the deaths of evereyone we were trying to save, thus achieving nothing whatsoever. Moreover, we have no proof whatsoever that the ICV nations are not telling the truth when they say that those they were relocating were resisting arrest (ooc: claiming that the refugees say otherwise doesn't count, because it's the ICV's country/region, and if they said it happened one way, it ahppened that way /ooc). For these reasons, we do not intend to ahve anything to do witht his conflict whatsoever, and we strongly urge Jackson and all other Apolytonian nations thinking of getting involved to either refrain from doing so or at least make sure you aren't invaded, because if you are then we would have to intervene.

	24-04-2003 08:57									#4
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Agreed. Although we deplore the threat caused by instability to our interests, Dakmoristan will not become involved in events in distant foreign regions.

	24-04-2003 08:58									#5
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For the record the USJ does not want to go to war with their region, but we will pursue all other means to make sure they pay for what they have done.

	24-04-2003 09:37									#6
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quote: pay for what they have done

How so? We have no international law, so legitimately you cannot. With force maybe, but they have extremely large forces. If they want to do that, let them. There are many nations that kill people because they do not conform to their religion (both in RL and in NS) and they are not as high profile, they go virtually unpunished.

Akiria does not condone their activities, but if religion is illegal, and they are still practicing/preaching, then they are breaking the law, and if their publicised punishment is death, then they get death. If you disagree with their laws, that is one thing, but it is also their right to have their own laws. They are not acting illegally, and thus should not be attacked.

	24-04-2003 10:04									#7
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sorry wrong post

	24-04-2003 10:26									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue How so? We have no international law, so legitimately you cannot. With force maybe, but they have extremely large forces. If they want to do that, let them. There are many nations that kill people because they do not conform to their religion (both in RL and in NS) and they are not as high profile, they go virtually unpunished. Akiria does not condone their activities, but if religion is illegal, and they are still practicing/preaching, then they are breaking the law, and if their publicised punishment is death, then they get death. If you disagree with their laws, that is one thing, but it is also their right to have their own laws. They are not acting illegally, and thus should not be attacked.

We simply want to save lives. We cannot stand by and watch while acts of gencide are commited. We have to act if we are to say we are human. Allthough we will not start a war, but use any other means to try to end this.

	24-04-2003 10:27									#9
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Right now we are trying to see if we can bring a case before the world court.

	24-04-2003 10:32									#10
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Don't waste your time. The World Court has no more authority than it is given by it's participants, and if the ICV doesn't acknowledge it's authority, it has none over them. Trade sanctions would be pointless, as they appear to be largely self-sufficient and would not hesitate to go to war to secure some resource that they needed but lacked.

	24-04-2003 10:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Don't waste your time. The World Court has no more authority than it is given by it's participants, and if the ICV doesn't acknowledge it's authority, it has none over them. Trade sanctions would be pointless, as they appear to be largely self-sufficient and would not hesitate to go to war to secure some resource that they needed but lacked.

At very least we can let the world know the crimes of ICV, and if they start a war because of the court, that is not our fault.

	24-04-2003 10:49									#12
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That won't matter a bit to the dead or their families. This is not worth starting a war or a global crisis over, period.

	24-04-2003 18:22									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue They are not acting illegally, and thus should not be attacked.

Any human rights violations of such magnitute are highly illegal in the opinion of Redfern.

	24-04-2003 18:39									#14
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same in the eyes of the Unified Sheepstan government. However with Centralis's support of Alecrastian attrocities in Sheepsta it is no surpirsning to see Centralis valuing human life so low.

	25-04-2003 00:39									#15
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Any human rights violations of such magnitute are highly illegal in the opinion of Redfern.

Actually, there is no international law, and it is not against their national law. It may be wrong, immoral, or even evil, but it is not illegal. There is no law they are breaking.

There is no World Court. It was brought up, and someone may have created one, but it was not ratified by the UN (it failed at the vote) and it is not bound to anyone. You cannot try someone in it for criminal activities, and it lends no legitimacy to any action taken against them to enforce the ruling.

	25-04-2003 07:40									#16
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quote: same in the eyes of the Unified Sheepstan government. However with Centralis's support of Alecrastian attrocities in Sheepsta it is no surpirsning to see Centralis valuing human life so low.

*SIGH* Here we go again with this old tired propaganda BS. There have been no Alecrastian atrocities in Sheepsta, period. To claim otherwise is most definitely godmodding, as Archaic is the only person who could judge whether his troops committed atrocities, and he said they did not.

	25-04-2003 09:38									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue How so? We have no international law, so legitimately you cannot.

Yes we do. Presumably with a UN there are international laws.

	25-04-2003 19:27									#18
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No there isn't. We have never had a UN resolution sanctioning a World Court, nor any specific humanitarian laws. Moreover, those laws, if they are ever passed (we don't even have basic human rights passed yet) would only affect UN members.