24-04-2003 12:59									#1
	President of Sheepsta calls for talks over Urbanised future Increase Your PM Length

Chopsu, SCT, Unified Sheepsta

President Stillman has announced that he wishes to hold talks with the Alecrastian government over the future of the Sheepstan city of Urbanised.

Urbanised had revolted after Alecrastian propoganda concerning the influence of New Sheepsta in the new Unification. Alecrast has since move in on what they claim is an independent nation, but which in reality is but a city of the Unficed Sheepstan state, and a city of the Province of North Sheepsta.

We call the Alecrastian government to send a delegation to the Old Imperial captial of Lambston in North Sheepsta to discuss the future of relations and the future of the people of Urbanised.

President Stillman a native of Urbanised camapgined on this topic a great deal and won the elextion for the Green Party against the Democrats and the Socialists on the platform that Urbanised must be rejoined to the Sheepstan state.

	24-04-2003 13:24									#2
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Darren Heimann, the Mayor (now Premier) of Urbanised, resents any implication that his proud city is anything but an independant nation, and has said that he is "insulted" by Stillman's announcement of wanting these talks with Alecrast when it is him that they should be talking to, if anyone.

He would like to make perfectly clear to all observers that Urbanised is an independant state, seperate from both Alecrast and "Unified Sheepsta", and that Alecrast military presence in the surrounds is only due to his request for such under the terms of the Fonseca Treaty.

He would also like to call to question just how quickly Stillman could be elected so quickly, and would like to remind those other nations in the region who questioned the original Alecrast referendum just why they questioned it in the first place.

	24-04-2003 13:39									#3
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The elections have been taking place for the last year. You knew they were coming. At least we have elections.

	24-04-2003 13:52									#4
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You are a corrupt dictatorship, and have never had elections. Furthermore, it has not been a year since you moved in. Don't give me another reason to put on our articles of independance Stillman. I've had quite enough of the propaganda from both you and Alecrast, and I have had more than enough of New Sheepstan lies.

	24-04-2003 16:21									#5
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ocC: Its been more than 5 days in Rl, so thats why I am claiming it over 1 year.

To Urbanised: The fact is we do not recognise your government. Now we give you this one offer. You rejoin the Sheepstan homeland. We shall induct you as an independent territory within the Sheepstan state. As so you will be able to vote for 10 senators and 20 Reps, this according to your size.

occ: Archaic, I'm kind of upset you have done this yet again and have caused more problems. I will be taking this to the court if you do not allow Urbanised to go under my control.

	24-04-2003 16:30									#6
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Urbanised refuses the "offer" of the so called United Sheepsta.

[OOC1]
And you hadn't posted anything about the reunification or an election during that time, (Apolyton was down for most of it, but not all of it. That wouldn't have prevented you posting on the regional board though.) which meant the reunification hadn't happened yet.
[/OOC1]

[OOC2]
I'm only roleplaying properly Sheep. Stop being such a petulant child when the roleplay doesn't go your way. Something like this was only to be expected. If you hadn't noticed, no matter how much you want to yell and scream otherwise, the UN has you as a Corrupt Dictatorship, and a Corrupt Dictatorship you will be treated as in all RP.
[/OOC2]

	24-04-2003 16:37									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Unified Sheepsta shall hold a referendum in 3 weeks, about 10 minutes to consider the cause of action, regarding Urbanised.

OOC:

Okay Archaic 2 things. 1/ I don;t have to post everyday, did the fact that it was Easter escape you or are you permanently glued to your computer screen to not realise that people do have RL to participate in!

2/For the last time you have not taken into account that North and South Sheepsta are provinces along with New Sheepsta. Average those governments out and then tell me what you get. It would probably be something cloe to a New York Times Democracy. Now Alecrasts support of Urbanbised is a full violation of the Court's order and the will of the Sheepstan people, which democraticly choose to join New Sheepsta in making Unified Sheepsta.

Now who is being the so-called 'petulant child'

	24-04-2003 16:46									#8
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Urbanised has already declared its independance. We care not for your referendum. If you decide to recognise us or not is irrelevant, because we exist.

[OOC]
1) Irrelevant. I have a real life too. That doesn't mean you can't spend 5 minutes to post something. I was.

2) That is what you say, however, that is not how we see it. If they are considered states or provinces or whatever is rather irrelevant, considering that it's rather obvious who controls the government. The Corrupt Dictator. Your retoric is irrelevant when all the RP evidence is against you.

3) Alecrast's support of Urbanised is no violation of the Courts order, or of the will of the people of Urbanised.
[/OOC]

	24-04-2003 16:48									#9
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Occ: Archaic, dioes the fact that I was on holidays that I did not know I was going on suprise you, that my girlfriend suprised me at the last minute. Did the fact that I do not have the net at home at the moment and have to go to uni to use it mean anything to you.

	24-04-2003 16:51									#10
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[OOC]
Does the fact that we're all sick of you making pathetic excuses make any sense to you? That you were away or not is irrelevant. Things do not happen until they are announced. Deal with it.
[/OOC]

BTW....

quote: Originally posted by Sheep 30th August 2009 Apolyton Courts, Akira INN has been cleared of all defemation law suits when the Courst found that what they had said was not uncesecarily untrue. While they warned INN not to be so harsh in its comments henceforward, they did clear INN from any wrongdoings.

This is godmodding Sheep. You cannot decide the actions of the regional court. The matter of the defemation suits are going to the regional court, ie. Drogue and the judges. And so will your constant godmodding.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep 1st September 2009 Port Urbanised, Unified Sheepsta Talks betwee the breakwaya government of Port Urbanised and the government of Sheepsta are scheduled to commence shortly. Sheepstan President Stillman is reported to want the full intergration of Urbanised into Sheepstan society. Like throughout Sheepsta, the constiution will be withheld. Alecrastian troops will most likely be asked to leave, no sooner than 10 days before the handover is made.

This is also godmodding. You cannot decide that there will be talks or not. Urbanised already refused your offers if you didn't notice. There will be no handover. In fact, there is nothing to handover. Alecrast does not control Urbanised, no matter how much you might try to paint it otherwise. Urbanised controls Urbanised, and Alecrast forces are only there at the request of Urbanised to protect it from potential attacks by you.

	24-04-2003 17:04									#11
	Remove this text

No this was INN saying something, not me. INN is INDEPENDENT, of course you don;t know the meaning of the word independent do you. INN claimed on what is now known to be an unreliable source that meetings would be scheduled.

Not only that but at least my INDEPNDENT states and services do not support each other all the time. Funny how your do. Hey I have an idea, if this means so much to you, why don;t you claim every large city in every nation in every damn region rises up and you now back them. Hell why don;y we all just say 'YOU WIN' cause you aren;t leaving any other options.

Rping is supposed to be fun, but with your continue insults with your continue chatter on how I am a child, how I do this wrong, how this is goddmodding, when I generally have a point and that its not immediatley evident perplexes you, is sad. People like you take the fun out of rping for others and suck the life out of the story. You do not respect other's wishes or make allowances for outside committments and occurances. Now I am telling you quit saying anything relating to Sheepsta. I have had enough, I just want my nation and to enjoy it without haveing to put up with your shite all the bloody time. Hands off it is mine, I have proven it to you time and time again. majority of the people here agree with me, and the only one that continues to be a petulant child is you because you do not recognise it.

	24-04-2003 17:18									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Sheep No this was INN saying something, not me. INN is INDEPENDENT, of course you don;t know the meaning of the word independent do you. INN claimed on what is now known to be an unreliable source that meetings would be scheduled.

Sheep, you control/own the INN. Sheepsta doesn't, but Sheep (ie. You personally) does. And you *will* be taken to the regional court over your godmodding.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Hey I have an idea, if this means so much to you, why don;t you claim every large city in every nation in every damn region rises up and you now back them. Hell why don;y we all just say 'YOU WIN' cause you aren;t leaving any other options.

Because they're not realistic. I have never RPed anything in this game that wasn't realistic, unlike you.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Rping is supposed to be fun, but with your continue insults with your continue chatter on how I am a child, how I do this wrong, how this is goddmodding, when I generally have a point and that its not immediatley evident perplexes you, is sad. People like you take the fun out of rping for others and suck the life out of the story. You do not respect other's wishes or make allowances for outside committments and occurances. Now I am telling you quit saying anything relating to Sheepsta. I have had enough, I just want my nation and to enjoy it without haveing to put up with your shite all the bloody time. Hands off it is mine, I have proven it to you time and time again. majority of the people here agree with me, and the only one that continues to be a petulant child is you because you do not recognise it.

RPing in this game should be both fun and realistic. Often, we cannot have our cake and eat it too. Realistic must take precidence. If you cannot have fun while being Realistic, if you cannot have any respect for the spirit of the game, then you have no place being here.

I will not just up and quit saying or doing things in RP relating to Sheepsta. That would not be realistic. Do you honestly think Alecrast would abandon its Fonesca obligations to defend Urbanised, or not criticise your Corrupt Dictatorship? Do you honestly think that Urbanised, with its population who had benifited greatly under the protectorates, would want a united Sheepsta under a Corrupt Dictatorship. If you are going to continue being a petulant child, and can't take valid RP and valid criticism, then what are you doing posting on an internet forum in the first place?

	24-04-2003 17:34									#13
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The fact that Urbanised was accepted into Forsceca before most of Forseca's mambers knew it existed, before even Sheepsta knew it was existed.

For another thing call me a child again and I will show you what being a child means, my friend. The truth is the court and the people of Apolyton have shown that you hold no legitmacy over Sheepsta, and this includes Urbanised. If need be I will take it back to the court. There was nothing to show tat urbanised would erupt before you said it suceeded. You are upset that you lost Sheepsta because I came back and claimed what is rightfully mine.

The fact is Rping is not a game per se. It is a story where people get together ave some tales and enjoy themseleves. This is the spirit. Yeah it may get unrealistic at times, but thats what critisiim is for. However you don;t tread on other people's toes like you keep doing, and you do not try an WIN a stroy, like you keep seeming to do.

And for the last time, I am not a corrupt dictatorship. Rping is every day = about 1/4 to 1/2 a year. Now NS does not and cannot keep up. If you have seen what I am doing I have been moving more and more to the left but the NS site makes it difficult. However North and South Sheepsta is part of the new nation so therefor average the governments out.

Unfied Sheepsta is not Greater New Sheepsta but a Union of all Sheepstan peoples.

	24-04-2003 17:47									#14
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quote: The fact that Urbanised was accepted into Forsceca before most of Forseca's mambers knew it existed,

Actually, the vote was unanimous. *ALL* members of the treaty knew it was going to be admitted and approved it.

quote: before even Sheepsta knew it was existed.

Um... so?

quote: For another thing call me a child again and I will show you what being a child means, my friend.

Why bother? You're giving us a perfect example of one right now.

quote: The truth is the court and the people of Apolyton have shown that you hold no legitmacy over Sheepsta, /quote] Via an election which was, firstly, a most innaccurate means of determinign the will of the Sheepstan people, and secondly, not representative of the people of Urbanised. [quote]There was nothing to show tat urbanised would erupt before you said it suceeded.

Well, if youa ctually read his posts, yes he did. They benefitted greatly from the Alecrastian protectorate and would have had no reason to accept the rule of a Corrupt dictatorship.

quote: The fact is Rping is not a game per se. It is a story where people get together ave some tales and enjoy themseleves. This is the spirit. Yeah it may get unrealistic at times, but thats what critisiim is for. However you don;t tread on other people's toes like you keep doing, and you do not try an WIN a stroy, like you keep seeming to do.

You just love this excuse, don't you? The fact that it is a story does not suspend the principles of reality.

quote: And for the last time, I am not a corrupt dictatorship.

Yes you are. Your nation description says you are, and that is what counts.

quote: Rping is every day = about 1/4 to 1/2 a year. Now NS does not and cannot keep up.

NS is the basis of the RPing. IF what it says on the site does not agree with what you think your nation should be like, then either you get off the site and sotp using it as a basis for the game, or else you accept what the site says.

quote: If you have seen what I am doing I have been moving more and more to the left but the NS site makes it difficult.

Again, the NS site is what counts. The fact that you don't like what it says does not make it any less true.

quote: However North and South Sheepsta is part of the new nation so therefor average the governments out.

Why should we? North & South Sheepsta are not in your possession. The Court awarded everything to New Sheepsta, not to you.

	24-04-2003 17:52									#15
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Actually my government is that and you wont admit that once again you are wrong. If you have been reading my Rping started before Archaic decided to screw around with me again, you would realise this is the aporach I had taken.

And for another thing the fact that you knew and accepted Urbanised before I knew of it proves that you and your ally just fostered a rebellion and that is an act of war. Wether or not I act upon this violation of Sheepstan sovereignty will remain gaurded.

	24-04-2003 17:57									#16
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quote: Actually my government is that and you wont admit that once again you are wrong.

Read the f*cking UN report if you disagree with me.

[quote[If you have been reading my Rping started before Archaic decided to screw around with me again, you would realise this is the aporach I had taken.[/quote]

What? Being a Corrupt Dictator?

quote: And for another thing the fact that you knew and accepted Urbanised before I knew of it proves that you and your ally just fostered a rebellion and that is an act of war. /quote] Knowing about a rebellion ahead of time and being willing to defend one =/= fostering one. [quote]Wether or not I act upon this violation of Sheepstan sovereignty will remain gaurded.

Go ahead and react, we don't care either way. If you attack, you'll be flattened, and if you don't, well and good.

	24-04-2003 18:09									#17
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No the fact the North and South Sheepsta too are also part of my nation accounts for democratic freedoms and the like.

	24-04-2003 18:15									#18
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There's only one way to solve this! Cut the city in half.

And give both pieces to Redfern

	24-04-2003 18:37									#19
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lol, I have to pay that.

	25-04-2003 05:59									#20
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There will be no talks now. What you did with Urbanised is godmodding, and I shall take this to the courts. The entire saga of you in Sheepsta without asking me is godmodding and the courts have proven this.

	25-04-2003 10:25									#21
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OCC:
Here we go again.

	25-04-2003 11:03									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep There will be no talks now. What you did with Urbanised is godmodding, and I shall take this to the courts. The entire saga of you in Sheepsta without asking me is godmodding and the courts have proven this.

Your creation of New Sheepsta in my nation of South Sheepsta was godmodding Sheep, because like it or not, Sheepsta had ceased to be yours, because Nationstates deleted it. But if you want to take it to the court, fine. If you win, the court is playing favouites and is using double standards, and therefore in my eyes is not fit to be the regional court.

	25-04-2003 12:25									#23
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Totaly diffrent circumstances. Sheepsta was created by me, and therefore I still had rights. Even though I had let it expire those rights remained mine.

Now if I had created a NEw Alecrast then you would have every right to be upset. I urge you see it from my point of view, the argument for is better than yours against.

Now Urbanised is another example of godmodding and therfore I does not exist. It is a normal port in the Sheepstan Republic.

	25-04-2003 12:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Totaly diffrent circumstances. Sheepsta was created by me, and therefore I still had rights. Even though I had let it expire those rights remained mine.

Special Pleading Logical Fallacy

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Now if I had created a NEw Alecrast then you would have every right to be upset. I urge you see it from my point of view, the argument for is better than yours against.

I'm a logical person, and a realistic one, unlike you who seems to feel free to ignore the basic laws of RP. If you had a reasonable arguement, I would've been swayed long ago.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Now Urbanised is another example of godmodding and therfore I does not exist. It is a normal port in the Sheepstan Republic.

Double Standards, unless you're prepared to accept going back to the status quo where Sheepsta was partitioned under Alecrast and Bulbagarden protectorates, with the intention to merge the two as an Alecrast protectorate with Bulbagarden needing to soon withdraw due to internal issues.

	25-04-2003 12:43									#25
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Okay my 'resonable argument is this' Being in hopsital was with limited acces, thought the nation would last longer than the 21 days (when I joined it was longer I think) Came back. Had no Pms asking for permission which I might of given, expected to find my nation still there.

Went to NS server nation gone, went to Apolyton forums, nation occupied. I did what I did, to get what is rightfully mine back.

Your Urbanised oin the other hand is not an attempt to get back whats yours, but to try and keep some of what you tried to steal. Now I have talked to a few members here, whom I will keep anymonous and they agree with me. Give it up. I mean I don;t care if ytou cahnge the PR to make Urbanised a new colony of Alecrast, so longa as in Rp its not on my island.

Hence this is also why I continue to ask for North and South Sheepsta which are rightfully mine. There are no double standards. In the law circumstances count. If you kill someone in pre-meditated murder it is murder and you are guilty, however do it in self defence and you wont get put into jail. Think of that way. Both cases somene is dead, but the other person is treated diffrently.

	25-04-2003 12:51									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Okay my 'resonable argument is this' Being in hopsital was with limited acces, thought the nation would last longer than the 21 days (when I joined it was longer I think) Came back. Had no Pms asking for permission which I might of given, expected to find my nation still there. Went to NS server nation gone, went to Apolyton forums, nation occupied. I did what I did, to get what is rightfully mine back.

Again, Special Pleading fallacy. You're not making any reasonable or rational arguement. No one should be getting special treatment here Sheep. Not you, not me, not anyone.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Your Urbanised oin the other hand is not an attempt to get back whats yours, but to try and keep some of what you tried to steal. Now I have talked to a few members here, whom I will keep anymonous and they agree with me. Give it up. I mean I don;t care if ytou cahnge the PR to make Urbanised a new colony of Alecrast, so longa as in Rp its not on my island.

I don't care who you talked to or what you "think" when your arguements are a load of lies and BS. There was a large proportion of Sheepsta which didn't want to merge with you under the vote, and the alegations of vote tampering (ie. No person would vote to be a part of a Corrupt Dictatorship Sheep, and you are one, regardless of what you say otherwise) are valid. It is reasonable RP to have part of the nation declare independance, just as it was reasonable RP for you to have your New Sheepsta, which is why I never protested the fact that it was godmodding originally.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Hence this is also why I continue to ask for North and South Sheepsta which are rightfully mine. There are no double standards. In the law circumstances count. If you kill someone in pre-meditated murder it is murder and you are guilty, however do it in self defence and you wont get put into jail. Think of that way. Both cases somene is dead, but the other person is treated diffrently.

They are not. I started them in RL, ergo they are mine, and I decide what happens to them.

I have a proposition for you Sheep. We'll take this to the World Court on the Nationstates forum. How's that sound?

	25-04-2003 19:53									#27
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The World Court has no duristiction. Why not accept that the Sheepstan island is now united under Sheep, as per the election, and that Alecrast is own by Archaic. What about if Sheep decides that a port of Alecrast wants to be Sheepsta, and breaks away, and he starts a nation that way? Yes Urbanised is Archaics, but Urbanised is not part of Sheepsta, IIRC. Therefore it is a seperate nation, but that island is Sheepsta.

	25-04-2003 21:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue The World Court has no duristiction.

How so? If both nations accept it to have juristiction, then it has juristiction.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Why not accept that the Sheepstan island is now united under Sheep, as per the election,

Because the election was patently rigged. It is not reasonable RP that that proportion of people would vote willingly to have their nation become part of a Corrupt Dictatorship. People in that poll didn't vote as though they were Sheepstan Citizens. They voted based around their own personal feelings towards me. Not me in game (As in the Alecrast Government), but me personally.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue What about if Sheep decides that a port of Alecrast wants to be Sheepsta, and breaks away, and he starts a nation that way?

I'd love to see him try it with reasonable RP. If it could be done, then he's more than welcome to. Afterall, it's not as if you haven't already displayed your double standards by allowing him to do it with New Sheepsta in the first place.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Yes Urbanised is Archaics, but Urbanised is not part of Sheepsta, IIRC. Therefore it is a seperate nation, but that island is Sheepsta.

Urbanised is a part of the Sheepstan island, and was formerly a part of Sheepsta, North Sheepsta, and for a very short time "United Sheepsta". It is not a seperate nation.

	25-04-2003 22:07									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic How so? If both nations accept it to have juristiction, then it has juristiction.

No, it is not a ratified court. Both nations can accept, then after the verdict, the loser can simply ignore it. It has no enforcement.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Because the election was patently rigged. It is not reasonable RP that that proportion of people would vote willingly to have their nation become part of a Corrupt Dictatorship. People in that poll didn't vote as though they were Sheepstan Citizens. They voted based around their own personal feelings towards me. Not me in game (As in the Alecrast Government), but me personally.

I disagree. I didn't vote like that, and I no a few others didn't. Some may have, yes, but it was not rigged. It was a lot mroe fair than you deciding who won, like in your RP one.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic I'd love to see him try it with reasonable RP. If it could be done, then he's more than welcome to. Afterall, it's not as if you haven't already displayed your double standards by allowing him to do it with New Sheepsta in the first place.

I'd love to see you try polite RP, but I don't think it will happen. If he is being unreasonable about numbers, about his nation, ignore it. But do not god-mod. I do not like anyone god-modding. He has, as have you. You both were being unreasonable. I am sorry you don't see that, and how your North/South Sheepsta was just as bad as his New Sheepsta, and as you have said, god-modding to counteract a god-mod is not so bad. The court decided that, and yet you still believe you were right. If you wish to stick with it then you can, but most people seem to think you were unreasonable too, if they voted against you because of that,a s you claim. If not, they believed New Sheepstans would want unity, which is perfectly feasable. Just because he is a dictator, doesn;t mean people will not want to live there. I would rather live their than corporate bordello.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Urbanised is a part of the Sheepstan island, and was formerly a part of Sheepsta, North Sheepsta, and for a very short time "United Sheepsta". It is not a seperate nation.

No it is seperate. Since you stated a seperate nation, and it is run as such, it is seperate. Look at the Map, you cannot just take land for another nation. That is God-modding. The fact you control it seperately means it is a seperate nation. Since it is a god-mod, the most obvious example I've seen (I want part of your nation, so I'll start another one, and claim it's part of yours). It is simply out of order, and as such, the only defense is to ignore it.

	26-04-2003 10:25									#30
	Remove this text

Thanks for the back up there Drouge. Can you understand where I am coming from Archaic?