24-04-2003 13:24									#1
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Between my anti-americanism and my pro-americanism (Yes, I have it. Offline, though.)

My anti-americanism is what you see most. The part that hates America for its actions such as invading Iraq, and that looks for even the tiniest flaw and exposes it. I look at the American people and I get angry at their ignorance, how they blindly follow the government which will lead them off a cliff, and how their media seems to be now divided into two sides: Really really really american and really really super dupa really really really patriotic American. No more balance on any sort of level anymore. I also see how Americans seem like little children: "Well, if you wont play MY way then we wont be best friends anymore!". It really gets on my nerves.

And then I get into my pro-american side. I look at the television and see the empire that has been created from the ground up with hardly anything. I see little children proud of their father or mother whos in the military, and they wave the American flag with such joy. I also get proud that I'm in the country, doing what i can to help it. That I'm helping this glorious nation continue its reign as superpower. I get angry at those who bash the nation, and I just love looking at my American Map in the study.
When I'm in this mood, I see the french as whiny little ************* who are simply jealous cause they aren't superpower. The germans just want money and thats why their sucking up to us now. The Russians want oil deals, but we can just screw them off cause they dont really matter anymore. China on the other hand...but they still need us, so we can control them.

Lately it seems as if my more pro-american side is coming out. But I'm getting concerned about the change....What if I begin losing sight of logic? Why am I undergoing such a change? Theres nothing that should have sparked this....
I dunno. I guess I'm getting a bit (I hate to admit it) scared of this. It's just that I seem to be getting much more "patriotic". Should I embrace it? Deny it? This kind of reminds me of the thread about the guy who wanted US soldiers to die and were glad to seem them die......except I have the opposite problem.

Dont threadjack this.

	24-04-2003 13:31									#2
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only you would have this great internal debate...

	24-04-2003 13:32									#3
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 only you would have this great internal debate...

Whats that supposed to mean?

(Smileys are working again!)

	24-04-2003 13:33									#4
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 only you would have this great internal debate...

I thought you went to bed.

Tass: Why do you need to pick a side of the fence?

	24-04-2003 13:37									#5
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I think lots of us feel the same way. My feeling is: the promise of America is one of the most glorious things in the history of the world. When my country lives up to that promise, I'm immensely proud. When it falls short of that promise, I'm sadened. When it deliberately gives up on that promise, I'm angry. And I think the highest duyt of an American is to criticize the government when its in the wrong -- and the fact that that's an Americans highest duty is what makes the place so great. So, I could never be a "my-country-right-or-wrong" type, but that doesn't mean I'm not patriotic.

	24-04-2003 13:37									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Tass: Why do you need to pick a side of the fence?

Because my two views are opposing. I can't hate the French but not hate them at the same time

I also can't hate American but love it at the same time, either.

	24-04-2003 13:40									#7
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You're Torn? I thought you are Tassadar5000?

	24-04-2003 13:40									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Because my two views are opposing. I can't hate the French but not hate them at the same time I also can't hate American but love it at the same time, either.

The world is not black and white.

There are things you hate about America, there are things you like about America.

But I'm confused why anyone would like the French?

	24-04-2003 13:41									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I thought you went to bed. Tass: Why do you need to pick a side of the fence?

i need my post orgasm poly post

	24-04-2003 13:47									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Asher There are things you hate about America, there are things you like about America.

But I get so angry with it....And then I love it with everything I have.........Sometimes I get in an uberpatriotic mode, and then.....I get in unuberpatriotic mode.

	24-04-2003 14:01									#11
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I'm just like Tassadar. Even though I have no american links...

I hear US songs and US TV shows, often saying stuff about how great America is, and the American dream... and a part of me says: "What right do these people have to infiltrate our lives with almost religious subliminal advertising".

Another part says: "What makes these guys so happy to be part of their country, when my own sings the national anthem with no heart. I think Americans are a great people."

I'm always thinking about these two, yet I don't particularly want to believe either is what my stance is

	24-04-2003 14:05									#12
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quote: But I'm confused why anyone would like the French?

The beaches full of naked chicks.

I think you have the rally-behind the flag effect. Everywhere comes negative information in, which provokes the feeling:" We aren't THAT bad". We made crap like "the Patriot" but we've redeemed ourselves with "the Matrix". And than there's the temptation of saying:" Hey, we've rocked, we bombed them to kindom come." Now we're in control. who needs all those criticism of those fools around the world, who only want to take our oil, which we have conquered. Or have those foreigners other sinister plans.

So, I can feel your torn feelings.

	24-04-2003 14:14									#13
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Like Asher said...

The world isn't black and white......

Shades of gray, baby. Shades of gray.

	24-04-2003 14:16									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Between my anti-americanism and my pro-Sovietism. My anti-americanism is what you see most. The part that hates America for its actions such as invading Iraq, and that looks for even the tiniest flaw and exposes it. I look at the American people and I get angry at their ignorance, how they blindly follow the government which will lead them off a cliff, and how their media seems to be now divided into two sides: Really really really american and really really super dupa really really really patriotic American. No more balance on any sort of level anymore. I also see how Americans seem like little children: "Well, if you wont play MY way then we wont be best friends anymore!". It really gets on my nerves. And then I get into my pro-Soviet side. I watched a television documentary and saw the empire that has been created from the ground up with hardly anything. I saw little children proud of their father or mother who were in the military, and they waved the Soviet flag with such joy. I also get proud that I was in the country, doing what i could to help it. That I was helping this glorious nation revive its(pre-1954) glorious reign as superpower. I get angry at those who bash the nation, and I just love looking at my Soviet Map in the study. When I'm in this mood, I see the Americans as powerhungry ************* with imperialist intentions to rape the world. China on the other hand...is a beneficial ally and will help us to destroy the American imperialists once and for all. Anyway, LONG LIVE THE MOTHERLAND! POWER TO THE SOVIETS!

	24-04-2003 16:00									#15
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america rocks. enjoy it / suck it down. your choice.

	24-04-2003 16:43									#16
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I've never hated America - if I did I wouldn't keep going there or watch American TV and use American products.

But I DO hate the current administration. I hate it's policies, both foreign and domestic and I hate how it got to power (and, to an extent, how every administration gets to power).

But then, I don't often speak too highly about the British government.

Dislike of the government does not indicate dislike of the people as a whole or the culture. It's just a shame when people forget that.

	24-04-2003 16:43									#17
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX america rocks. enjoy it / suck it down. your choice.

There's patriotism, then there's arrogance.

	24-04-2003 18:08									#18
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I've never hated America. I'm a pacifist, and a internacionalist left-wing guy... I don't like the Bush administration, of course (Condoleezza is my worst nightmare... but she has nice legs). But I love all that jazz and Rock'n'Roll, I love The Cinema, I love their powerful literature... Good people and bad people, like in every other place. In addition, America has New York and Woody Allen... Oh, yes, I love Poly!

I can't hate America. However, I can hate some Americans...

	24-04-2003 18:52									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Aro I can't hate America. However, I can hate some Americans...

A leftist who likes Woody Allen cannot be entirely bad

	24-04-2003 19:16									#20
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Contrary to popular ACS opinion, it's ok to love America.
Does that mean you can't strive for improvement? No.

But strive, don't just sit back and whine and moan like...
some people.

	24-04-2003 20:09									#21
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TASS, it appears you have pretty violent swings of opinion. One can, in fact, love & hate aspects of one's country at the same time. Especially a country as large, populous, powerful & diverse as ours. There are gonna be lots of things out there to love or hate. Personally, I try not to go too far in either direction, because that blurs my judgement. I get irritated by both the uberpats & the americaistherootofallevil crowd.

I think Rufus' reply was the best yet (from an American POV):

quote: When my country lives up to that promise, I'm immensely proud. When it falls short of that promise, I'm sadened. When it deliberately gives up on that promise, I'm angry.

-Arrian

	24-04-2003 20:23									#22
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Yeah, I am with Rufus here as well.

I think is is important to remember what made American great, and it is a universal promise. that is why i find jingosim so insanely anti-American: jingoism is built on the notion of "us vs. them", it is meant to exclude and define, separate. Yet what makes America great is the fact that its ideals and promises are universal, and that any human being, from any corner of the world can come and enrich American and be fully integrated and adds to this place. This is the great strength of the US and its secret to sucess. When I see people define america purely by geography and "blood", which is vital for jingoism, I can;t help but tot hink thy have no cleu what makes American different and allows it to endure. I also hope that in general the US as a society never decides to finally adopt that parochial self-definition.