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our_man is offline our_man
Prince
Glasgow, Scotland
Oct 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 17:47
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The Church of the Nativity Gang - One Year On Increase the size of your Attachments

Well, it's been roughly a year since those crazy, fun-loving Palestinian militants decided that they'd invade and desecrate one of the holiest shrines of Christianity and turn it into their Alamo.

And what did they get for their reward - an all expenses paid trip to Europe! Two of them were accomodated in Ireland. I brought this up because I read an interesting article in the Independent today about the fate of one of the terrorists brought to Ireland.

'Most wanted terrorist' living rough in Dublin
ONE of two Palestinian militants invited to this country last year as part of a deal brokered by the EU is living rough in Dublin. Jihad Jara says he has been homeless for five months and regularly sleeps in a park. Mr Jara (31) is described by Israel as a "senior terrorist" and one of its "most wanted of wanted men".

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/

I'm sad to say the other guy (I can't remember his name) fared much better and landed on his feet. He ended up marrying the Irish woman that was teaching him English, so it made the news a few months ago. One memorable quote of his was that he realized that she was Catholic and would respect her religious beliefs - he then insisted that they be married in a mosque. Silly girl - I can't see this marriage lasting very long; long enough for him to get residency rights no doubt. Amazing how these hardcore terrorists throw their principles out the window at the first opportunity to get some Western Skirt and thereby citizenship rights.

Or maybe I'm being overly cynical?

So, for all you Apolytoners out there, how did your country end up treating their charges? Did you roll out the red carpet, or were they given the bum's rush? Are they going to apply for political asylum, or are they going to be thrown back to the Israelis?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 17:52
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If you don't like them, send them here.

silly girl.

our_man is offline our_man
Prince
Glasgow, Scotland
Oct 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 17:54
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Here's the full text.

ONE of two Palestinian militants invited to this country last year as part of a deal brokered by the EU is living rough in Dublin.

Jihad Jara says he has been homeless for five months and regularly sleeps in a park.

Mr Jara (31) is described by Israel as a "senior terrorist" and one of its "most wanted of wanted men".

He is one of 13 Palestinians who were taken in by six European countries in a deal to end the long-running siege at Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity.

Three Palestinians exiled to Italy under the same deal have been given new identities under the system used to protect those giving evidence in Mafia trials in that country.

But Mr Jara says he has been forced to sleep in parks or with friends because the Irish Government failed to keep its promise of accommodation. He now wants to leave this country.

He has been assured by authorities here that he will be allowed to move to another country by May 22, but initially told journalists that he would create "big trouble" if not allowed to leave.

The EU deal reached last May meant the Palestinians could remain in their host countries for 12 months and then apply for political asylum if they wished. Mr Jara said he did not care what country he was sent to as long as he was allowed to leave Ireland.

The father of four small children said he has never seen his two youngest sons. His wife gave birth to their youngest child, Samed, on May 22 last year, the day he arrived in this country. He said he has never seen his third child Mohammed, who is two, because he is on the run and cannot go to his Palestinian home.

His wife and children live in the Jenin refugee camp and he speaks to them once a week on the phone.

It is understood the Palestinian Delegation General in Ireland has been in negotiations for some time with another country with a view to getting Mr Jara accepted there.

Yesterday, he explained he had been housed in Finglas with Rami Kamel, the 23-year-old Palestinian who arrived with him last May. But he said that after Mr Ramel married an Irish woman he could not, as a Muslim, remain in the house with a woman who was not a member of his family. He said he had been promised alternative accommodation, but this had never materialised.

Mr Jara spent two months in Tallaght hospital after his arrival in Dublin, having been hit in the leg by an Israeli sniper during the siege in Bethlehem. After being shot, he had spent 39 days in the historic church in Bethlehem, reputed to be the birth place of Christ, without food or medical supplies.

A former member of the Al Agaxa Martyrs' Brigade he previously worked as a bodyguard for a PLO politician. While rejecting reports that he was wanted for questioning about the murder of a US citizen in the West Bank as "Israeli lies", he said he had killed Israeli soldiers. "I would like freedom for my country and a future for my children."

The Department of Justice refused to comment on this case yesterday. A spokeswoman said the Foreign Affairs Department was seeking a meeting with the Delegate General of the Palestinian Authority in Ireland, Ali Halimeh.

An Israeli embassy spokesman said it regarded the 13 Palestinians exiled last year as terrorists, but it was unclear whether Mr Jara and the others would still be wanted for questioning if they returned home.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independ...1&issue_id=9083

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 18:01
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quote:
Al Agaxa Martyrs'

that's the weirdest spelling I saw for this ever.

our_man is offline our_man
Prince
Glasgow, Scotland
Oct 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 18:03
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"that's the weirdest spelling I saw for this ever"

Yup. Fine Irish journalism into researching the proper spelling of names at work here.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 18:08
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anyway, have fun with this guy.

I don't believe the EU was stupid enough to take them in.

Negotiating an exit into the arab word would be smarter, albeit more difficult.

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 18:28
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I'm very dissapointed.

A whole year had passed and still no "mysterious accidents"?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 19:05
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

actually I think it's great. serves the EU right for taking them in.

besides, we promised.

Felch is offline Felch
Prince
Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 20:08
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Re: The Church of the Nativity Gang - One Year On Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by our_man
Well, it's been roughly a year since those crazy, fun-loving Palestinian militants decided that they'd invade and desecrate one of the holiest shrines of Christianity and turn it into their Alamo.


The Alamo was a bunch of redneck militants who took over a Christian shrine so they could continue to practice slavery in Mexico.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I just had to sit through a lecture that blamed the whole thing on Santa Anna for trying to keep a bunch of slave owning rebels from tearing his country apart.

But yeah, I'm disappointed in Israel. You guys are only cool because your hitmen are so badass. I want to hear cool stories about these Palestinians accidentally swallowing sulfuric acid or something.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 20:12
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What the hell kind of nickname is Jihad Jara?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 20:33
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I don't think it's a nick, Dino.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 20:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
I don't think it's a nick, Dino.
It's either a) something the he calls himself [in which case he would be insane] b) something the newspaper has taken to calling him [hence it would be a nickname]

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 20:56
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quote:

But yeah, I'm disappointed in Israel. You guys are only cool because your hitmen are so badass. I want to hear cool stories about these Palestinians accidentally swallowing sulfuric acid or something.


See? We're losing our reputation here!

I hope Dagan is planning something grand. I was sure we'll have lots of cool incidents when he was chosen, but meanwhile nothing.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 21:24 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
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Re: Re: The Church of the Nativity Gang - One Year On Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by Felch X


The Alamo was a bunch of redneck militants who took over a Christian shrine so they could continue to practice slavery in Mexico.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I just had to sit through a lecture that blamed the whole thing on Santa Anna for trying to keep a bunch of slave owning rebels from tearing his country apart.


Of course, there was that tiny matter of imprisioning and executing non-catholics in Texas...

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 21:49
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Re: Re: The Church of the Nativity Gang - One Year On Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by Felch X


The Alamo was a bunch of redneck militants who took over a Christian shrine so they could continue to practice slavery in Mexico.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I just had to sit through a lecture that blamed the whole thing on Santa Anna for trying to keep a bunch of slave owning rebels from tearing his country apart.

But yeah, I'm disappointed in Israel. You guys are only cool because your hitmen are so badass. I want to hear cool stories about these Palestinians accidentally swallowing sulfuric acid or something.


Felch, what are the two views on the cause of the war in Texas?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 21:51
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"Yesterday, he explained he had been housed in Finglas with Rami Kamel, the 23-year-old Palestinian who arrived with him last May. But he said that after Mr Ramel married an Irish woman he could not, as a Muslim, remain in the house with a woman who was not a member of his family. He said he had been promised alternative accommodation, but this had never materialised."

This doesn't seem right. What this implies is that Muslims cannot have guests.

our_man is offline our_man
Prince
Glasgow, Scotland
Oct 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 24-04-2003 22:28
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AFAIK his real name is Jihad Jara, as unlikely as it sounds. He did his best to live up to it though. Imagine calling your poor kid Jihad.

Ned, I can't really pretend to know much about Muslim customs, but I imagine that there must be some difference between being someones 'guest' and living with them. Since the other guy's wife is Irish, I doubt she's the one making a big deal about it.

Maybe its just that Rami wanted a little quality time by himself with the little lady, and decided to let Jihad know that he's overstayed his welcome.

Felch is offline Felch
Prince
Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 25-04-2003 03:28
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Re: Re: Re: The Church of the Nativity Gang - One Year On Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Felch, what are the two views on the cause of the war in Texas?


There's the traditional American perspective, which is what you're taught in school. Mexico was religiously intolerant, and a dictatorship, and the Texans fought heroically against vastly superior numbers to defend their values of freedom and democracy.

It has grains of truth, but it's not nearly complete.

The fact is that Mexico gave free land to Americans who promised to fulfill a pretty basic requirement: swear allegience to Mexico, obey Mexican law, and convert to Catholicism. There was an attempt to limit the number of immigrants, since the policy was intended to shore up Mexican authority not diminish it.

Enforcing these requirements were very difficult for Mexico, since Texas was far out of reach from central authorities in Mexico City, and also very big, as we all know.

Therefore, many Americans essentially squatted on Mexican territory. This in and of itself isn't so bad, since the land wasn't being used by anybody except the Natives, and nobody gives a rat's ass about them in any event. The problem was that they refused to swear allegience, refused to convert, and broke Mexican laws, especially those which prohibited slavery.

Now say what you will about being forced to change your religion for a free gift from a foreign country, but if Paris is worth a Mass, people getting free real estate in Texas shouldn't complain either.

The real indefensible problem that I have with the Texans is that their perception of freedom and liberty was racist. They rejected the idea that blacks should not be enslaved and forced to work on cotton plantations, and they denied basic civil rights to hispanics who could not prove that they aided in the Texan Revolution.

The truth quite simply, is that Mexico was invaded by illegal immigrants who brought an evil institution in the form of slavery, and who then rebelled and denied basic civil rights to former residents who didn't actively support the insurrection. Of course that's not the whole story, but it's the other side, and one you're not going to hear in an American classroom.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 25-04-2003 20:30
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Felch, Here is a contemporaneous speach by Frederick Douglass. It does seem to confirm your rendition of the facts. In particular, it appears that Mexico declared all slaves free in 1828. This led to a protracted series of negotiations with the American slaveowners in Texas. Initially the Mexican government apparently allowed the Americans to emancipate their slaves over time, but even this turned out to be unacceptable to the Americans. So the Americans revolted and called for assistance from their brethern in the United States on the basis that they were being forced to convert to Catholicism against their will!

http://www.yale.edu/glc/archive/1063.htm

Also, Santa Ana was a dictator.

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:27
  Old Post 25-04-2003 23:47 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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Poor baby, on the run and all that.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 01:58
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Felch, The Texan point of view:

http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/res...wo/txaustin.htm

The proximate cause of the revolt was the overthrow of the federal form of government (constitution copied from the US constitution) in favor of a central form. States were declared departments. Two states revolted. Texas was one of them.

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