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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Nah, instead of assigning a number to each tile, we should assign a name to each instead. That should keep our Lexicography thread going for another couple of years, at least.
Dominae |
hi ,
yeah right , ....
well it might work , but huh , lets hope no-one counts wrong , ....
and how are we going to give each tile a number , are you going to post screenshots each day with the number for each ( new ) tile ?
thats a lot of work , ....
have a nice day
we should build a city at "109" (!)
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wervdon
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quote:
might work , we need a city on "109" BTW
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Why 109? If this was my game, id go with 156, though I'd probally go for the dyes before either....
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Hagbart
WB i think your idea is great! But maybe we could have multiple "fixed points". So when moving laboures or military units closer to say, Mingapulco, the coordinates will be Mingapulco: 3sw, 3se.
By choosing the nearest city, the coord. numbers wont be to high when we gain more land and so. It will also be much easier to count.
When we are in war or moving far away from our cities, we could use enemy cities as fixed points. We could even use an easy recognisable mountain as a fixed point and so on.
Just a proposal. 
-Hagbart |
I can't back a system like this. The whole reason I'm looking at a new system is to prevent confusion and mistakes. I purposely numbered each tile differently.
If you have different "fixed points" then you can have confusion still. Lets say there's a tile in between Bananatopia and Apolyton. It's Labled Aplotylon 2SW-1SE and from Bananatopia it is labeled Banatopia 1NE-1SE. These are two different lables for the exact same tile. This would not be apparent in any orders written up by either the MoI or the MoW. The mistake would only be apparent when they referenced the map and, for example, saw that they had scheduled both cities to have a loborer work that tile on the same turn.
If each tile has a distinctive marking, then it would be readily apparent in either set of orders from our Minister's that a mistake was made, in fact the Minister's would be likely to never post order's that contained order's for laborer's from two cities to work tile #6 on the same turn. In fact, any person just glancing at the per turn orders would see this mistake. If the tiles do not have unique identities, then mistakes can, will, and have already been made.
I cannot stress enough that a unique identifier is needed for each tile to avoid confusion and mistakes. If you don't like numbers, use letter's (a-z then aa,ab,ac, and so on). if you dont like the clockwise spriral; then pick an arbitray point in the upper left portion of the map, at least 25 tiles NW of Apolyton and call it tile#1 then lable each tile sequentially from left to right. once you reach somewhere 25 tiles NE of Apolyton, start a new row just under the previous. This would allow numer's (or letters) to run left to right and top to bottom.
I really don't care what sytem is used, as long as there are unique identifiers for each tile that cannot be used or confused for another tile.
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WhiteBandit
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Southern California
Jul 2002
time: 21:27
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Well, the main argument here is convienence versus probability of goofing up.
Any system that we design will have it's disadvantages. I like your system... on a small area. But this map is 100 x 100, which is 10,000 tiles. I know you've proclaimed your willingness to number all 10,000 tiles, but I think it's a bit unrealistic. Everyone would have to keep maps on hand (and perhaps multiple maps split up). I personally think it would be hard to memorize a system like this.
Each tile would have a unique identifier, but the drawback is "OH CRAP. Where is tile 9,876 again? Let me load up my 2mb JPEG file on my PII-266... in the meantime I'll go take a shower, mow the lawn, hit on the cute girl next door..."
I suppose I'm generalizing the problem, however I don't think your system is anymore practical than what we already have.
To answer Hagbart:
Well, I don't think having multiple reference points is too practical. I do see your point, especially in regards to other cities, but perhaps this system isn't the most effective design to be used for individual cities.
In regards to dealing with cities, I actually think E_T's design is probably the best, as each tile within a CITY RADIUS has a unique number (up to 25 I believe) and I don't think it would be too difficult to get used to.
I guess that is the next problem we should figure out. What is the purpose of the mapping system we are trying to design? Despite what I think is "cumbersome", BigFree's and my own system would be better suited for dealing with unit movement far from home and figuring out things. E_T's is very well suited for local areas.
Anyways, keep the ideas/comments/critique/suggestions coming.
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFree
If each tile has a distinctive marking, then it would be readily apparent in either set of orders from our Minister's that a mistake was made, in fact the Minister's would be likely to never post order's that contained order's for laborer's from two cities to work tile #6 on the same turn. In fact, any person just glancing at the per turn orders would see this mistake. If the tiles do not have unique identities, then mistakes can, will, and have already been made.
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BigFree, the mistake I made with my system would just as easily have been made with yours: a typo.
When I wrote up the recommendations for the MoI, there was certainly no confusion in my mind as to which tiles were to be worked, regardless of naming system. The only time that I could conceivably be confused is if I were to double-check the recommendations for typos without having the game screens in front of me. But why would I ever do that?
It is the same thing when the Consuls play the turn, since it is very difficult to get confused with my system when you actually have the city screen right in front of you.
It is surely difficult to "read over" the MoI recommendations and get a picture of what's going concerning Laborers. But who cares? It is not really important for the casual onlooker which tiles we work on any given turn. If you are interested in such things, then I've always suggest you load up the scenario and get a look at things first-hand. None of this has anything to do with tile-naming conventions, since there are just means of getting usually visual information across in a text-based format.
Please do not equate typos, which plague any system we'll adopt, with genuine confusions.
Dominae
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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Domiae, the thing is is that the the 'casual onlooker' cannot discover these problems because it would take some effort on his behalf to check the order's in a game situation for the current turn, it not hard, but it would require him to fire up the game, download the save, unzip it, use password, then load the game while having the MoI's order's in front of him. There's no way for someone to check future order's unless they had an updated simulation for this game.
With a system of unique identifier's, future order's can be at least confirmed to not have any tiles to be worked by two cities by anyone looking at them.
Typo's would be a problem for both systems, granted, it's a concern for any system. All previous confusion's may have been typo's, that's fine, I'm only looking to take away some of the possibilities for error's. The possibility for non-typo error's exist still with the current system. I wasn't trying to say you were confused, but that the order's submitted caused confusion. Don't take it personal. 
I would like to have more people involved in this game. You've said that the casual onlooker cannot possibly look at the MoI's order's and determine what is going on. I'd like to change that. If there were a map, with unique identifier's posted along with the MoI's order's, then he could 'actively' participate. There seems to be much apathy on this team as noted by the inactivity of other's. Perhaps we need to implement a different system so that we can draw more member's into the action. Providing an updated map for the MoI's use and for the teams use in general could be done by me. I volunteer to do it, for each turn if need be.
Once we know where we are in relation to the tile that is in the top left portion of the map, I will create a map to number every tile on it; all 10,000 of them, just for the fun of it. But we do not need all those tiles numbered, just the ones within our sphere of laborer influence.
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Dominae
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BigFree, I'm still not convinced that having tiles named differently based on which city you're considering creates all that much confusion. Like I said, the only time this would be confusing is if you're trying to do a check specifically to determine if there is any overlap, but there should be no such overlap (barring typos!) because I'm actually selecting the tiles visually when I run the scenario.
By the way, this is the only time in the game where this might be midly confusing. For the next 30 or so turns you can expect a lot of Laborer reassignments. But when our cities get bigger and the tiles become improved, you'll see a lot less switching around. The MoI orders will not remain this confusing to read for long!
The reason I do not like the unique identifier idea is that I would have to refer to it each and every time I would want to mark down Laborer assignments (at least, until I start memorizing the most-used tiles). With my system, if you give me a city, I can tell what numbers I'm going to use to refer to the tiles without any outside tool. That's a really nice benefit when you're writing all this down in the queues. And (so I hear), the Consuls are not too confused, once they've got the turn open and are actually looking at the city screens.
Dominae
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFree
I would like to have more people involved in this game. You've said that the casual onlooker cannot possibly look at the MoI's order's and determine what is going on. I'd like to change that. If there were a map, with unique identifier's posted along with the MoI's order's, then he could 'actively' participate. There seems to be much apathy on this team as noted by the inactivity of other's. Perhaps we need to implement a different system so that we can draw more member's into the action. Providing an updated map for the MoI's use and for the teams use in general could be done by me. I volunteer to do it, for each turn if need be.
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The problem is not the naming convention we use, it's the level of micromanagement. No matter how well you label the tiles, the queues are going to look bad because most players 1) are not used to so much MM, and 2) are used to seeing these things occur in-game, instead of on a post in a web forum.
I would also like to get more people involved. But it will not happen at the level of the queue. I believe it will happen at a higher level, namely, what we should prioritize, and when. We had some good discussion concerning this in a chat a couple of weeks ago (you were there). But, since the game moves along at such a slow pace, we cannot have the chats very frequnetly.
Dominae
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wervdon
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quote:
hi ,
one ; hills within city radius
two ; the land narrows there = easier early defense
have a nice day
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Fair enough, though Im not sure I agree with you, I can at least see your point. One thing though, the hill is in the city radius for both sites (the one you suggested and the one I suggested), but Im guessing you mean the hill is usable from the start at the first site, whereas at site 156, it'd require a cultural expansion.
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Hagbart
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Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
The problem is not the naming convention we use, it's the level of micromanagement. No matter how well you label the tiles, the queues are going to look bad because most players 1) are not used to so much MM, and 2) are used to seeing these things occur in-game, instead of on a post in a web forum.
I would also like to get more people involved. But it will not happen at the level of the queue. I believe it will happen at a higher level, namely, what we should prioritize, and when. We had some good discussion concerning this in a chat a couple of weeks ago (you were there). But, since the game moves along at such a slow pace, we cannot have the chats very frequnetly.
Dominae |
I have no idea what you ministers and consuls mean when you give the coordinates of movement like 2-4-3 whatever!? Can some body explain this or give a link to an explanation atleast?
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:27
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quote:
Originally posted by wervdon
Fair enough, though Im not sure I agree with you, I can at least see your point. One thing though, the hill is in the city radius for both sites (the one you suggested and the one I suggested), but Im guessing you mean the hill is usable from the start at the first site, whereas at site 156, it'd require a cultural expansion. |
hi ,
not only that , there are two hill's and one mountain , the reason its a good spot is if that the chances of being able to build the iron works there are greater , .....
and the amount of shields from that city shall be high , ..... it could become a huge production center , .....
have a nice day
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by vondrack
...so I am doing my best to include both systems in my posts/reports. |
Thanks vondrack. Soon we'll all get used to one convention, and it will become second-nature to all of us.
Dominae
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25-04-2003 03:25
, might work , we need a city on "109" BTW 
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