25-04-2003 18:25									#1
	M:tG Online Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Against my better judgement I signed up for this, and play the occasional game with a black-red deck that I bought with the $10 coupon you get when you register.

I'm not doing overly well, being hopelessly outplayed by almost everyone, but then it is a pre-constructed deck, not known for their ability to beat anything except another preconstructed deck...

Anyone else play?

	25-04-2003 19:01									#2
	Tired of ads?

No, but more on the fact that if I were to buy cards, I'd buy the real things... it seems silly to me to buy virtual cards and real cards IMHO... though I may have the concept of it really wrong.

That... and it's not compatible with my Mac...

	25-04-2003 20:39									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

*sigh*

I wish they had made MtG online somewhat like Diablo, where you walk around battling monsters with decks of their own in order to win cards.

Having to purchase cards puts the game out of my price range.

	25-04-2003 20:42									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Purchasing online cards is just anathema to me. I've not looked twice at M:tG online as a result since I don't want to be tempted.

	25-04-2003 20:42									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

*nods* That's what I think about it too... good concept, great way to play people when you can't find anybody, but having to buy two decks if you play both online and IRL? I don't think so.

	26-04-2003 05:54									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

yeah, that is stupid - they should implement a way to get new cards you buy in both formats, even if you can't transfer ones you already have. But since I don't play IRL, I figured one deck wasn't too expensive to just play the odd game online now and again.

	26-04-2003 07:02									#7
	Suffering from ads?

IW,

IIRC, Chowlett plays it as well, but haven't seen him around for ages.

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 *sigh* I wish they had made MtG online somewhat like Diablo, where you walk around battling monsters with decks of their own in order to win cards.

You mean like the MicroProse game M:tG?

	26-04-2003 09:19									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Paying real-world money for virtual-world cards? They must really think Magic players are a bunch of clueless 13-year-olds . . .

(Oh, wait. The average Magic player is 13.)

	26-04-2003 15:37									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yeah, that's a great scam.

	26-04-2003 16:05									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have no idea what game you are all talking about, but I grew out of card battle games (top trumps?) when I was about 12.

Is this game a glorified version of that?

	26-04-2003 16:29									#11
	Support Apolyton

Never heard of Magic the Gathering?

Yeah, I suppose it is a glorified version of Top Trumps (VERY VERY glorified, though) in so far as you collect cards, fight them, each card has an Attack and Defence value, biggest number wins in straight combat. It's far more involved than that, though. If MtG was chess then Top Trumps would be noughts-and-crosses ... or whatever, you get my point.

Great game, but expensive.

Have a look around www.magicthegathering.com to maybe get a better idea. It might just confuse you even more, though.

	26-04-2003 16:34									#12
	Got spare money?

Magic is also potentially a professional game. The top 50-ish players in the world can actually make a living from travelling around the world and playing in tournaments.

My g/f's brother got heavily into playing Magic when he was at Uni. He entered tournaments, won and collected rare cards etc...
When he left Uni he sold his collection of cards, added that to the money he had won in tournaments and had enough to buy himself a nice new car. That'd never happen with top trumps.

	26-04-2003 16:38									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet When he left Uni he sold his collection of cards, added that to the money he had won in tournaments and had enough to buy himself a nice new car. That'd never happen with top trumps.

But you might have the wicked cool Harley Davidson card. Its not to be sniffed at.

	27-04-2003 03:00									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It blows my mind to think how profit-margin padding this is... Before, WotC was basically selling printed paper cards for many times their production cost. Now they even save on the paper cost and store it all in virtual form? It boggles the mind.

That said I have some decks from my Magic days. Good for a casual game or two, but never for serious tournement play.

	27-04-2003 04:08									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: You mean like the MicroProse game M:tG?

A combination of the Shandalar game and Diablo.

Shandalar is only single player, so they would need to incorporate some of the features of multiplayer Diablo.

If you want to make money, this would be a good place to start.

	27-04-2003 15:42									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Shadowstrike It blows my mind to think how profit-margin padding this is... Before, WotC was basically selling printed paper cards for many times their production cost. Now they even save on the paper cost and store it all in virtual form? It boggles the mind.

Let's make one up ourselves. It's better than printing money.

	27-04-2003 20:04									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

Surely if the online 'virtual' cards have a recognised (potentially resale) value it is no different buying these than spending money on a tangible card. I can see the annoyance in having to build decks IRL and online, but I don't see why, if starting from scratch, buying virtual cards is any different than buying real cards. As someone said, the real cards you buy have no inherent value either.

	28-04-2003 06:55									#18
	Put an end to popups!

Urban Ranger - sounds like a promsiing idea. Shame that they've made "trading card games" for every possibly concieveably commericalized product. Its a practical no-brainer for any campaign (LotR cards, Harry Potter cards, etc.)

DrSpike - I supose the biggest difference between the two is the tangible card itself. When nobody wants this commodity any more, I can at least burn the card to keep me warm for a few seconds. I can't burn a virtual card.

	28-04-2003 08:59									#19
	Tired of ads?

I think there's actually some way to exchange your virtual world cards for real world cards.

quote: Let's make one up ourselves. It's better than printing money.

You know, I was just thinking about this the other day.

If you're not averse to making games based on books, David Gemmell's Drenai series might be a good candidate.

	28-04-2003 09:31									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Shadowstrike Urban Ranger - sounds like a promsiing idea. Shame that they've made "trading card games" for every possibly concieveably commericalized product.

There's an easy way to do it. Take M:tG, rename all the components, and markets it as our own. AFAIK, they have no copyrights on anything other than the artworks, so there should be some easy money there.

For example, rename "Instant" to "Battle Magic," "Sorcery" to "Ritual Magic," "Enchantment" to "Alternation," "Planes" to "Dimensions," "Planeswalkers" to "Dimensionshifters." Well you get the idea.

	28-04-2003 10:35									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

You're a clever, clever man. And also a devious, devious man.

	28-04-2003 11:32									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Mr. President You're a clever, clever man. And also a devious, devious man.

I'm just taking after Dogbert

	28-04-2003 14:43									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Never tried the Online version. It does suck having to buy virtual cards.

I collected cards and played but it got too expensive. Every 3 months a new set of cards. Too much to keep up with....

Although its the best board/cardgame i have ever seen.

	28-04-2003 19:38									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Daz Although its the best board/cardgame i have ever seen.

I'll certainly have to agree there.

	29-04-2003 10:06									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Now, I'll confess something that is....well, is not going to make make me popular in Apolyton....here it goes.....

M:tg is the only game that sucked more time than Civ2 and SMAC...... trying to quit this game (after total addiction) is like trying to quit smoking. I recently got a credit card, and I was tempted to spend $80 in M:tg Online. I believe that M:tg addiction is as bad as MMRPGs.

	29-04-2003 12:45									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Magic addiction is still not as bad as Apolyton addiction.

	29-04-2003 15:29									#27
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Magic addiction can cause severe starvation due to spending all money on cards...

And all you can think about is countering and trampling people in real life....

	29-04-2003 16:26									#28
	Remove this text

Ever sold a kidney to buy Magic cards?

	30-04-2003 20:21									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

They did try blocking other CCG companies from using the "tapping" mechanism no matter what they called it. They lost that court case, but if a small company tried producing a Magic clone CCG WotC would probably just tie you up in court until you ran out of money.

	30-04-2003 21:09									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

And why is it that Grumbold is probably unfortunately correct?