26-04-2003 15:49									#31
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Rogan Josh - I haven't seen that in the book... Especially with the ending and all. I'll have to re-read it sometime with this perspective in mind.
Does fit Heinlein more.

	26-04-2003 16:10									#32
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I think that no one has mentioned that ultraortodox jews can get away from service. A hot potato as those that get away from this in many ways are the same nutjobs that wants a 'Greater Israel'.

	26-04-2003 16:18									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh Are you guys kidding me? The book 'starship troopers' is not fascist - it is anti-fascist. Heinlein is pointing out how bad a society it is. He is warning about the dangers of nationalistic fascism and how easy it is to fall into when faced with an overwhelming enemy. Jeez, you guys are as bad as Ming!

Maybe. But the society he describes is already like that before the "overwhelming enemy" attacks...

	26-04-2003 17:17									#34
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quote: Admitidly the movie kind of screws that up though....

It does and does not. People here interpret that film as antifascist and have a clear image, which country the film describes.

Maybe, it's because an European made the movie. Does not need to give many hints, to see, what's the topic of the movie.

	26-04-2003 17:20									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus You gotta admit there are similarities

The nazis compared Jews with Rats. Fortunately we are all much wiser today...

	26-04-2003 17:27									#36
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Precisely! The rats are really the Palestinians!
Although cancerous growth does describe them better...

	26-04-2003 17:30									#37
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(Remember, the Palestinians are like cancer! His Highness the Chief of Staff said so!)

	26-04-2003 17:32									#38
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And Camus compared the germans with rats. Popular animal those rats.

	26-04-2003 17:38									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin And Camus compared the germans with rats. Popular animal those rats.

Let´s hope those rats aren´t complaining for abusing their entire species for stupid comparisons.

	26-04-2003 17:46									#40
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Or rather, the plauge is the germans and the plauge kills the rats... But, I guess comparing people with a plauge is not much better.

	26-04-2003 18:43									#41
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quote: The book 'starship troopers' is not fascist - it is anti-fascist. Heinlein is pointing out how bad a society it is. He is warning about the dangers of nationalistic fascism and how easy it is to fall into when faced with an overwhelming enemy.

I never understood what was wrong in nationalism, if the nation is the entire human race.

quote: Jeez, you guys are as bad as Ming!

Get over it.

	28-04-2003 05:54									#42
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quote: A hot potato as those that get away from this in many ways are the same nutjobs that wants a 'Greater Israel'.

Huh?

Those who get away from service are nati-zionist ultra orthodox.

By describing settlers as ultra orthodox, CNN and the NYT are creating a huge mis-conception.

Right wingers and settlers are national religious. They aren't as zealous and don't wear black.

	28-04-2003 06:07									#43
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quote: Those who get away from service are nati-zionist ultra orthodox.

How do they do it? somebody tell me

	28-04-2003 06:24									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov quote: A hot potato as those that get away from this in many ways are the same nutjobs that wants a 'Greater Israel'. Huh? Those who get away from service are nati-zionist ultra orthodox. By describing settlers as ultra orthodox, CNN and the NYT are creating a huge mis-conception. Right wingers and settlers are national religious. They aren't as zealous and don't wear black.

hi ,

, and what about the " Haredi " then in the Nahal brigade , or the Haredi who clean up all the bits and pieces after a pigua , .....

not to mention how many there are that have tzit-tzit and a keple in olive drab , .....

have a nice morning

	28-04-2003 06:35									#45
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There is an unwritten agreement - a status quo that religious students don't get called to the army for as long as they are studying torah.

that was agreed upon in the early days of the state- - when there were 250 such people. Now they are several tens of thousands.

There was a law passed recently that exempts religious students from the army iirc. I voted for the party which promised to revoke it.

There is mass public outcry against this.

Btw, no all ultra orthodox don't serve. Some do infact.

	28-04-2003 06:37									#46
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panag - i was talking about the mainstream of ultra orthodox.

I didn't see your post when I did mention that some ultra orthodox do serve. But in general they are mostly anti-zionist.

Btw, while the picking up bit is holy work, I'm not sure it should exempt from military. After all - doctors don't get exempt from military. Why should undertakers be?

	28-04-2003 06:47									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov panag - i was talking about the mainstream of ultra orthodox. I didn't see your post when I did mention that some ultra orthodox do serve. But in general they are mostly anti-zionist. Btw, while the picking up bit is holy work, I'm not sure it should exempt from military. After all - doctors don't get exempt from military. Why should undertakers be?

hi ,

you use "some" , ..... there are more and more orthodox getting in the military nowadays then lets say 10 years ago , ......

but i know what you mean , there are plenty of ultra's who are against the state , ...

the ones who pick up the pieces are not "exempt" from service , .....

check it out , there are also a number of duties one can perform in other fields , ....

one thing that must also not be forgotten is that many have done a service overseas in for example a country of birth , .... (!)

have a nice morning