26-04-2003 08:50									#1
	Is China still communist? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

China is filled with American industries, it got the capitalist Hong Kong, and has said it is experimenting with capitalist ideas... is it still fair to say Communist China? And if not, then does that mean communism is finished as a practiced political idealogy?


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	26-04-2003 09:08									#2
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China is as communist as Canada is an absolute monarchy.

The party constitution has been amended... state-run enterprises are dying off... the private sector has IIRC passed the 50% mark... communism is over in China.

	26-04-2003 09:09									#3
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China calls itself communist to justify the continued power of the Party but it beyond that you are correct, china is no longer communist.

As for Communist ideology...well, only if you figure we have gone past the last stage of Capitalism and a workers revolution will never come to pass.

	26-04-2003 09:29									#4
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China's gone from despotic communism to semi-despotic quasi-capitalism. It's quite weird, really.

	26-04-2003 09:34									#5
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yeah well this is probably for the better... Gorbachev tried to do this but instead Russia had a sudden change from communism to capitalism that kind of messed up the country a bit. China would be even more unstable if it suddenly turned to capitalism. gradually change is probably better

	26-04-2003 10:43									#6
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It is still a dictatorship, if that's what you're asking. They certainly do not allow freedom of speech, that is for sure.
Gorbachev did not try to make Russia into a capitalist dictatorship-he allowed freedom of speech.
As a government, Communism died way before this. Communist governments are merely dictatorships with different names.

	26-04-2003 11:15									#7
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china's not hardcore anymore

	26-04-2003 14:18									#8
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China is not communist in all but name.

	26-04-2003 14:59									#9
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It never was.

	26-04-2003 15:30									#10
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China is and has been a dictatorship. The leaders of the country has gone from the most radical forms of production during the great leap forward to the present system. This to me shows that they are flexible enough to change the economic system before the economy changes the political system. The elite is smart enough to do what it takes to stay in power. Principles and ideologies are for the masses. If the barrell of a gun isn't enough to keep in power one has to be flexible.

	26-04-2003 21:33									#11
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There has never been a true communist state in the world, ever. The idea of communism is that everyone owns everything, shares everything, and is equal to everyone. Not one nation that has called themselves communist has been communist. Communism does not nessasarily mean lack of freedom it just means for everyone to be equal.

Nations like the Soviet Union or China, are more totalitarian then communist. Look the word up (totalitarian) and it fits perfectly with the Soviet Union and other communist nations.

Communism can exist untill the world has been united and the hatred of different peoples is gone. The best example of communism I have seen is in Star Trek.

	26-04-2003 22:15									#12
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China isn't communist; it's well on the way to fascism.

	26-04-2003 22:32									#13
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Drake.

	26-04-2003 22:36									#14
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Azazel.

	26-04-2003 22:38									#15
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Go and get a room you two!

	26-04-2003 22:47									#16
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They should give you an avatar, Drake.

	26-04-2003 22:54									#17
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quote: They should give you an avatar, Drake.

Damn straight.

	26-04-2003 23:00									#18
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go post in the on-topic. there are plenty of places to make 'funposts' there.


On topic: China was almost never socialist, and therefor, it was never communist, as communism is a form of socialism, and socialism is the workers' control of the means of production. This can be done in a decentralized way, by councils controlling companies, or in a centralized way, by an democratic government. since the PRC government is not elected, and is not responsible before anyone, it cannot be called democratic, and therefor, cannot be called socialist, and therefor not communist, by definition.

	27-04-2003 08:55									#19
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so in a sense, in the long run, Chang Kai-shek won the chinese civil war... a somewhat capitalist dictatorship

	27-04-2003 08:57									#20
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quote: so in a sense, in the long run, Chang Kai-shek won the chinese civil war...

I wouldn't go that far.

	27-04-2003 09:00									#21
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Communism in China is kaput. Everybody knew that since 1989 and perhaps before. Even the dictatorship itself is gonna go. Capitalism is undermining the dictatorship and is growing gradually... also somebody equated democracy with communism.. that is false. Communism always ends up in dictatorship.

	27-04-2003 12:32									#22
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So does capitalism. What's your point?:P