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Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 18:56 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Albert Speer
without a doubt... Fez... he completely ignores facts and does not respond to your rebuttals except in curses and insults

thanks


Really? You just stated the way you argue.

In reality, I think I will change my mind. MtG isn't a bad person to argue with. It is you, Speer. You are like a brick wall and everybody here will agree with me.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 19:01 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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I think comparing Berzerker to David is a bit of a stretch.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 19:32
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I would regret getting into an arguement with most posters on Apolyton. I either respect the opinion of the poster (even if they are trolling ie: AH or just argumentative ie: Asher) or don't respect their opinion at all. I don't have a middle-ground yet that would be conductive to an arguement.

Then again, I'm not an argumentative person.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 19:48
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Brezerker's arguements often draw so much fire that it becomes impossible to maintain a debate. It's pointless to carry on a discussion when you post something one day then come back the next and the reply to your post is five pages back.

By and large though none of you guys scare me. I don't recall that any of the names bandied about here have ever bested me.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
Emperor
of Ålidhem
Mar 1999
time: 06:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 19:51
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One aspect of the kind of debates that usually takes place in a forum as apolyton is that a lot of posters are unable or - in most cases I'd guess - doesn't want to debate the essence of a post.

Do you think I'm vague? Yes, I am but I'll give you an example. Lets say I and another poster are debating a issue. The other poster makes a post and I answer to it with a post of some length. My post may actually disprove the other posters standpoint. But as the post includes a number of statements the other poster will ignore that his statment has been trashed and he (or a third poster that ignores the context) goes straight for some weak or fuzzy part of my point that's not that important for the point I'm trying to make itself. A bad analogy perhaps. The other poster will start to rage on about this little inconsistency and it will end with him being the victory by a technical knockout. He'll be wrong in the original issue but I'll end up being the loser.

statusperfect is offline statusperfect
King
Sweden
May 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 19:57
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Ming. I fear him.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 20:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Obiwan -

Let me see, how many times has Obiwan admitted being wrong? Oh yeah, zero. Prove me wrong and I'll admit it.

GP -



Pardon me, but that is inaccurate, you introduced a statement I made in a dead debate from a previous month into a new thread without telling me you were talking about the old thread.
And it was an extremely inane point to begin with...I see you still have trouble stating facts...


Wrong. I was referring to a comment from a few days before. Yes...if you trace everything back it goes back a month and to another thread. By the way...the precurser thread to that one. So it was a continuous discussion. Idiot.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 22:18 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Re: Which Poly poster would you most regret getting in an argument with? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote:
Originally posted by Frozzy
Me? Definately DanS. He just has this horrible knack of grabbing facts from some mysterious source and pushing you down with them... it's like he knows everything


I feel honored.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 22:35
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GP -
quote:
Wrong. I was referring to a comment from a few days before. Yes...if you trace everything back it goes back a month and to another thread. By the way...the precurser thread to that one. So it was a continuous discussion. Idiot.


A continuous discussion my a$$, the prior thread was long dead and you know it. You entered a new, extremely long thread in which I was debating Agathon and started talking about statements made in a debate we had a month or so before without mentioning you were dredging up arguments made in the old thread. And what was the point of your flashback? Whether or not we had ever discussed lotteries? Sheesh! Can you get any more irrelevant? Well, yes, you just did in this thread with your BS...

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 22:42 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Tell the Navy punk, Berz.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 23:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
GP -

A continuous discussion my a$$, the prior thread was long dead and you know it. You entered a new, extremely long thread in which I was debating Agathon and started talking about statements made in a debate we had a month or so before without mentioning you were dredging up arguments made in the old thread. And what was the point of your flashback? Whether or not we had ever discussed lotteries? Sheesh! Can you get any more irrelevant? Well, yes, you just did in this thread with your BS...


A. Show me.
B. I had no problem remembering the thing. It got complicated after you pissed and moaned and had a back and forth argument after.
C. The way you argue leads to these things, Berz. You are a slippery little worm. If I try to argue issue A, you will throw in issue B. It's like pinning a butterfly wings down.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 23:05
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Seeing this thread, I think I'll change my answers to erz and GP

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 23:06
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Oh...and Berzie, the threads were referring to each other. And instead of having a big argument disagreeing with me, you could have just investigated it and said "George is right...oh, but it was a while ago." Instead you debated what you had said endlessly until finally pinned down. At that point, coming out with the "it was old" sounds pretty ****ing weak.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 23:07
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Nah...I only get into it with Berz, cause that's his style. i won't be like that with you Spiff.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 23:10
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
Nah...I only get into it with Berz, cause that's his style. i won't be like that with you Spiff.

Immortal Wombat is offline Immortal Wombat
Prince
in perpetuity
Dec 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 23:14 Visit Immortal Wombat's homepage!
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Lazarus and the Gimp.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 27-04-2003 23:40
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GP -
quote:
A. Show me.


Nah, you show me since you entered this thread to rehash the past.

quote:
B. I had no problem remembering the thing.


That's nice. We had a debate about the efficacy of lotteries one month, then in the next month, after you entered a new thread in which Agathon and I were debating, you started griping about whether or not we were debating lotteries without ever mentioning the old thread leaving the impression you meant the current thread. That's the only "proof" you've offered for your accusations in this thread.

quote:
It got complicated after you pissed and moaned and had a back and forth argument after.


You were the one doing the pissing and moaning. And what are you doing in this thread? More pissing and moaning.

quote:
C. The way you argue leads to these things, Berz.


What happened to that memory of yours? You were the one who instigated the confusion by bringing up arguments made in an old thread without mentioning what you were doing.

quote:
you are a slippery little worm. If I try to argue issue A, you will throw in issue B. It's like pinning a butterfly wings down.


Aren't we all impressed by the brave souls who use the internet to insult people when we all know they'd re-discover their manners face to face.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 00:00
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GP -
quote:
Oh...and Berzie, the threads were referring to each other.


No they didn't. They were a month apart and in the first one we debated lotteries and in the second, a debate about libertarianism you jumped into late, we ended up debating if we had debated lotteries. That's how inane you were. Once you informed me that you meant that we had debated lotteries in an old thread, I acknowledged we had.

quote:
And instead of having a big argument disagreeing with me, you could have just investigated it and said "George is right...oh, but it was a while ago."


That's exactly what I said once you identified the old thread. But you expected me to track down an old thread when you didn't even bother telling me you meant an old thread? I might have if you had told me you meant the debate about lotteries occured in an old thread instead of leaving the impression you meant the current thread. Even you complained about how long it took for you to track down the old thread, so why expect me to do your research?

quote:
Instead you debated what you had said endlessly until finally pinned down. At that point, coming out with the "it was old" sounds pretty ****ing weak.


Not at all, I kept asking you to identify where in the current thread we debated lotteries and you kept ignoring my request and never let on you meant an old thread until you went and found it. How was I supposed to know you meant an old thread? Agathon and I had been debating lotteries in the second thread, so naturally, when you started talking about lotteries, I figured you meant the same thread with Agathon, not one from a month ago.

Alex is offline Alex
Emperor
Brasil
Mar 1999
time: 02:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 00:26 Visit Alex's homepage!
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I would not like to get in an argument with any Poly posters. I already have enough of these things with my wife.

OneFootInTheGrave is offline OneFootInTheGrave
Prince
Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 00:27
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now this thread is fun

surely would end in the most useless argument on Apolyton top ten

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 03:01
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I thought at first that this about how I regret arguing against XXX because he was actually a smart and well educated person.

It turns out it's a *****ing thread against people that are annoying to argue with.

I'm not going to mention all the ME posters since it's clear

I'm going to talk about people I respect when arguing, because I think this thread should be positive. The hell with the rest.

1. Ramo. He's a logical and very bright young kid. A bit too idealistic, but very smart.

2. Agathon is both smart but also a pain. I respect him as an intellectual though he often comes off snbobbish when instead of arguing about issues, he does his best to hint at how intelligent he is ("tell me? have you ever read XXX by XXX? Do you even know what the XXX theory is all about?"). It would work much to his advantage if instead of trying to appear wiser, he'd actually explain what he was talking about.

3. Che is fun to argue with. He often gets all kinds of alternate history facts from outer space, but some of them are actually crazy enough to sound true. He's always fun to argue with.

4. Kontiki is quite annoying to argue with. He seems to know a bit about every issue, or at least post about almost every second issue. His views are quite liberal left though he claims to be a centrist. Maybe compared to Che

Wait... this has become about people it's a pain to aruge with going back to fun people

5. Eli is fun because it's fun to see him make rediculous claims.

6. Ned is fun since he's sincere about his intentions to really advance and get your point and explain his point.

7. Dino Doc was fun to argue with when he was still going in his previous nick name. He was annoying, but he gave a good fight.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 03:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
GP -

No they didn't. They were a month apart and in the first one we debated lotteries and in the second, a debate about libertarianism you jumped into late, we ended up debating if we had debated lotteries. That's how inane you were. Once you informed me that you meant that we had debated lotteries in an old thread, I acknowledged we had.



That's exactly what I said once you identified the old thread. But you expected me to track down an old thread when you didn't even bother telling me you meant an old thread? I might have if you had told me you meant the debate about lotteries occured in an old thread instead of leaving the impression you meant the current thread. Even you complained about how long it took for you to track down the old thread, so why expect me to do your research?



Not at all, I kept asking you to identify where in the current thread we debated lotteries and you kept ignoring my request and never let on you meant an old thread until you went and found it. How was I supposed to know you meant an old thread? Agathon and I had been debating lotteries in the second thread, so naturally, when you started talking about lotteries, I figured you meant the same thread with Agathon, not one from a month ago.


Now I gotta go track it all down again. Suffice it to say that you were wrong. Will be back with some cut and paste crap to get your mouth watering.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 03:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Arguing with Bezerker is an exercise in parsing sentences into oblivion.


You forgot "an exercise in wading through mounds of irrelevant objections."

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 03:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov

2. Agathon is both smart but also a pain. I respect him as an intellectual though he often comes off snbobbish when instead of arguing about issues, he does his best to hint at how intelligent he is ("tell me? have you ever read XXX by XXX? Do you even know what the XXX theory is all about?"). It would work much to his advantage if instead of trying to appear wiser, he'd actually explain what he was talking about.


Sorry if it seems this way. I've been infected by my surrounds too much. If I can nail you down as having read a book or knowing what, say, utilitarianism is, it makes it easier to find common ground and the argument will actually get somewhere. It can be a big time saver in my job. Besides there are a stack of folk on here who answer "yes" to that stuff.

It's got nothing to do with trying to sound smart and everything to do with trying to spur on the argument.

Anyway, whenever I try to explain what I'm talking about Asher starts trolling the thread.

and no one should compare Lloyd with Berzerker. I had a long argument with Lloyd and he argued fairly and charitably without making irrelevant objections. I disagree with him, but at least he fights fair.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 04:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


You forgot "an exercise in wading through mounds of irrelevant objections."


I gotta go read 800 posts and than get back to him. That I need to do so tells you something. And Berzie...many people have this problem with you.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 04:45
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I may goof off a little before getting down to it...

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 04:51 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Stop picking fights with the tall people in class
Navy.

Don't make me send Dirk Nowitski after you!!!!

Last edited by Ted Striker on 28-04-2003 at 04:57

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 05:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov
4. Kontiki is quite annoying to argue with. He seems to know a bit about every issue, or at least post about almost every second issue. His views are quite liberal left though he claims to be a centrist. Maybe compared to Che


I gotta say, I'm just honored to be mentioned. I didn't think I was enough of a fixture here to be noticed on anything yet.

And I'm aware that I come off as liberal left, although I really do maintain that I'm centrist. I just tend to argue against far right-wing positions more because they tend to incense me more. I find any far-left position to be just as rediculous, though, but I tend to just ignore them as far too idealistic.

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 06:12
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Kontiki - no problem

Agathon - I know. But the problem is that even if I do know what you're talking about, I rarely take time to remember names or definitions (which is a minus, i agree).

I could also demand people to use definitions in morality of war threads, or talk about famous philosophers who talked about the morality of war. But I avoid that so that not to alienate people.

You seem to do it often. I realize it's a time saver in the faculty. But to other people it often sounds snobbish. I realize you don't intend to come off as such, but people may think so.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 28-04-2003 06:32 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Arguing with Bezerker is an exercise in parsing sentences into oblivion, so I will avoid those at all costs.


He must do it intentionally. It is really quite effective at silencing his opponants. After a while I forget what I thought he said that he said.

 
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