29-04-2003 04:41									#1
	Can We Win??? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OK - I gotta ask. Everyone has seemed to disappear, or at least laid low for awhile - not sure if that is because:

1. personal circumstances
2. being fed up with me doing all the turn playing and FA work (I am to a certain degree ),
3. the war not going as well as we initially planned.

So - if you want to talk about it - please do.

But in the meantime - the other question is - do you think we can win this thing?

If the majority view is no - then we better talk about it rather than push a losing cause. I am not opposed to sucking up to GS, pulling back - AND with their support going for a chunk of the continent. We have not destroyed anything of value. We may have knocked them off their building plan. But we may have a hard time re-building a fence we trashed pretty well.

Then again - GS does not want this war - it is keeping them from bigger and better things. So - let's hear your views on both topics. Thanks.... Beta.

	29-04-2003 05:21									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

I vote for reason 1 as I will be able to catch up on wednesday night... I am still pretty confident with this war, and think that we can do a lot of damage to GS...

	29-04-2003 06:24									#3
	Got spare money?

I think we can do it but not without more support from our allies.

After I got back from my trip last week I had some bad news in the personal circumstances arena. I don't have anything planned for this week or the coming weekend but after that I will be unavailable on weekends and at the end of the month I will be gone for two weeks.

I could do some of the turn playing if we coordinated to work around my unavailable periods. It is harder for me to do FA since that can not be scheduled/coordinated in the same way.

Although we are keeping GS from their building plans they indicated they have a leader so this makes up for some or all of what it has cost them so far. I am not really sure how much GS wants peace. It is hard to read them. If we did agree to peace what would the others (e.g., Lego and RP) think? We may never be able to get another ally. Even if GS agreed to peace I doubt they will support us on the continent. We can always test the waters to see how serious they are about peace.

We are in a bind. We have lost half our main invasion force. GS has two pikemen close enough to enter the second city. It will be tough for us to take but that force will soon be lost anyways. The catapults will reduce them and the swordsmen will take them out when they have no strength left. I am undecided between trying to push forward and exposing more territory or if they can survive long enough to pull back and join up with more forces.

We have made a number of mistakes. We gave them too much warning from the start of the war until our invasion force was a threat to their cities, they got their GA earlier than they should have, we underestimated how quickly they could complete Feudalism, and we have underestimated the size of their attack forces. Something to learn from the next game.

The more I see of their territory the more ironic it seems. The [i]expert[\i] team gets a fantastic starting location. They have a river for good commerce. The combination of flood plains, furs, and hills provides great growth and shield production. Two luxuries on chiefton means all their cities can grow to size 6 without happiness problems. We know they have both horses and iron, the two most important resources for the first half of the game. Compare that with the other civs. We have mostly plains, barely have iron and don't have horses. RP, ND and Lego are all fighting jungle. GoW does not have iron. Unless GS is totally devoid of future resources an expert team with that kind of start is unbeatable unless they make some really serious mistakes or [b]everyone[\b] puts in effort to stop them.

Although we can have some fun combating the civs on the main continent, that will only help GS win in the end. So we can either play for fun and help GS win or continue a Do or Die approach against GS, and the Do or Die will be decided by support from allies. After GS is out it is hard to tell what the shape of the world will be in. We may not stand much of a chance of winning then either, but with GS in the picture I feel our chance is nil. Does it matter if we play to win?

	29-04-2003 06:32									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I too voted for 1. I still think we can win this war, even with minimal support...but when I say "minimal" support, I mean more than just 2 horsemen that are used for target practice!

And yes, I have been laying low lately, but not because of the game status, but rather "real world" responsibilities...I'm gearing up for my Finals, so free time for me right now is at a premium to say the least.

	29-04-2003 09:25									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We must win, therefore, we will win.

	29-04-2003 12:54									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'm still here. I'm having trouble getting back into the action. I need screen shots and possibly a save game (don't send that to me though- I don't have civ3 installed right now).

Is the game still moving? I'm used to seeing how fast it is moving by the save games I receive. I no longer recieve save games.

No worry as I no longer have civ3 installed. my one copy of civ3 ceased to work, and I haven't bothered to reinstall it yet.

In any case, I don't think we will lose this war. If we don't make gains, I figure eventually we will just come to a cease fire, and we will be fall behind everyone else.

	29-04-2003 16:31									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I'm still here. I'm having trouble getting back into the action. I need screen shots ...

Hi Diss. We have a new set-up. The screen shots are now posted in the moves thread. Each turn's screen shots now accompany the turn's commentary.

	29-04-2003 18:28									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have a lot of school work. All my final papers, and such. Plus past few weekends I've had things going on.
I think if we keep playing smart we will win this war.

	29-04-2003 21:41									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

big test yesterday

big test tomorrow

I need to get off apolyton and study

Jon Miller

	29-04-2003 21:46									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Same here.

	30-04-2003 07:10									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

any war is winnable, we just have to have the right strategy and the right strengths, and to minimize our weaknesses

	01-05-2003 11:09									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

ahh OK. I didn't realize we could post screen shots now.

Although I just recieved the save. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't.