30-04-2003 05:47									#1
	What do you do that is bad strategy? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

What do you do even though it is something you really should not do? And why?

The bad things I do are:

1. build as many wonders and culture improvements as possible restricted to 5 core cities regardless of whether they are really needed or not and regardless of whether I should have them doing something else. This is so that the 5 greatest cities in the world are all my own (and not captured) cities.

2. REX far too slowly. I just tend to forget about settlers and start building some improvement and later think "umh should have built a settler instead, build one now or change that production".

3. Don't build enough units. Too busy building improvements, never mind that I happen to be in the middle of a war and don't have enough to attack only enough for defence.

4. Optimal city placement so eventually all cities will work 20-21 tiles each so I can have great big cities. This is disregarding the fact that I have to wait ages before sewers are available and disregarding the efficiency of denser early spacing.

5. Don't use bombard units much. I rarely even think of building any bombards. Just ram enough knights into a city and it will fall (I know this is shockingly bad) and anyway I am seldom properly prepared for war. I just make sure I am very well defended but there are rarely any units left over for invasions.

	30-04-2003 05:49									#2
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Go extreme builder - I usually have little or no army until Modern Ages, after I've researched everything and can build up the perfect army to my heart's content.

	30-04-2003 06:42									#3
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-don't check the AIs enough (every turn) for good deals.
-don't build enough workers

	30-04-2003 07:07									#4
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- don't use the luxury slider : i know it's useful, but for a mysterious i always forget it

quote: Optimal city placement so eventually all cities will work 20-21 tiles each so I can have great big cities. This is disregarding the fact that I have to wait ages before sewers are available and disregarding the efficiency of denser early spacing.

I do that, too. That's why i usually have 5 cities where i could have 8 built.

	30-04-2003 07:45									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 -don't check the AIs enough (every turn) for good deals. -don't build enough workers

Umh, sometimes I completely forget about checking the AI.

Sometimes I build too many workers.

Oh, and I must build the Hanging Gardens (umh, because I liked the picture of it in the city display screen way back from Civ1 and therefore wanted it in my capital, old habits die hard even though it is now Civ3 and there are more useful wonders to have). Umh, in my current game I am building a large fleet and army for the sole purpose of finding the, as yet undiscovered, evil civ that beat me to it. Umh, probably the worst strategy imaginable, given I am in the middle of another war, but what the heck, I must raze that offending city.

	30-04-2003 08:41									#6
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I think you'll find moving to higher and higher difficulty levels drums some of these habit out of you.

I never used Catapults, for example, now I'm high on them. More recently in an Archipelago game I had to space closely. My most recent learning experience was where I needed almost all my cities building units just to keep the Zulus at bay!

But I still don't check the AI for deals all the time.

	30-04-2003 09:01									#7
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Optimal city placement and not enough workers (and general worker mismanagement) are/were my two main problems. Demogames have cleaned up my worker strategy, and ralphing/suburbing/(whatever you want to call building expendable cities between 20 tile ones) is able to compromise with my city perfectionism.

I also used to build too many improvements and too little military, but that, too, has been helped by Demogames. Generally I find I just need to make sure to sit back, look at the map, and realize what my actual goals for the next turns are instead of looking at each city individually on a turn-by-turn basis.

	30-04-2003 09:35									#8
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I think you'll find moving to higher and higher difficulty levels drums some of these habit out of you.

True, when I try a higher difficulty level I find that I really must give up these bad habits.

OTH I seldom try a higher difficulty level because I don't want to give up these habits. I don't wanna REX like hell, I wanna build early wonders etc etc So at Regent I shall remain.

	30-04-2003 10:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I think you'll find moving to higher and higher difficulty levels drums some of these habit out of you.

Absolutely agreed. But bad habit's hard to break. And I still have not won a game at Emperor level because :

1. I give up too easily, esp when I am 7-8 Techs behind
2. I rush through the early games moves
3. I do not change the labor placement in the City Screen on every turn, sometimes lazy sometimes forgot
4. My kid will come to the PC, play with the keyboard and my moves got all messed up
5. I don't play every day, sometimes only during the weekends. So I tend to forget my last moves & what I am planning to do.

	30-04-2003 11:24									#10
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quote: Originally posted by rush Absolutely agreed. But bad habit's hard to break. And I still have not won a game at Emperor level because : 1. I give up too easily, esp when I am 7-8 Techs behind

Once you have played through this problem and have trained yourself to recognize that you have them where you want them, you will be winning regularly.

	30-04-2003 12:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by rush ... 4. My kid will come to the PC, play with the keyboard and my moves got all messed up 5. I don't play every day, sometimes only during the weekends. So I tend to forget my last moves & what I am planning to do.

My wife is forcing me once a month to unistall the game.

	30-04-2003 12:19									#12
	...but seriusly Remove this text

My mostly recognizable mistakes were:

1. Optimal city placement, showing how to build x number of cities on a given territory, when you can build 2x.

2. Not selling my luxuries. I've learned in AU302 how to do it better now.

3. Not buying luxuries, showing (and wondering) how to have cities with max size of 5-6, when all the AIs have 12.

4. Beeing too much builder, showing how to be suprised from a sudden attack of 5 horsmen...

I've didn't saw this point here yet, but I think this is very important:

5. Not building pre-builds! You need a long time for building a wonder from a scratch!


cumi

	30-04-2003 14:45									#13
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My bad habits

1) Keeping cities too small early in the game - building Settlers and keeping them size 1-3.

2) Not building early wonders. Too much emphasis on REX.

3) Rushing turns - should check diplomacy every turn (oh, for a faster system).

4) Not building enough defensive units to hold down captured cities. I always end up with too much cav/armour and not enough infantry.

I could go on and on but am trying smaller maps to cut out these habits.

	30-04-2003 15:05									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy My bad habits 1) Keeping cities too small early in the game - building Settlers and keeping them size 1-3. 2) Not building early wonders. Too much emphasis on REX.

I'm not sure 1) is a bad habit. I do the same. A settler done when the city hits size 3 instead of letting it grow to size 6 means at the very least that your Settler was build 12 turns earlier. Discount 6 turn to position it and build a new city and you still have gained 6 turns, meaning your city could be size 2 already. Do this 10-15 times and you out-rex the AI even on Emperor. Then, you can leave 2 cities to grow and use them for Palace/Wonder building. Point 2) resolved.

	30-04-2003 15:08									#15
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt More recently in an Archipelago game I had to space closely. My most recent learning experience was where I needed almost all my cities building units just to keep the Zulus at bay!

Spacing cities close on Archipelagos is the way to go. I usually do the C-T-T-C and pack almost twice the number of cities of other civs on the same surface. This gives you more gold, units etc.

Try to keep this bad habit, and even improve it.

	30-04-2003 15:13									#16
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quote: Originally posted by cumi My mostly recognizable mistakes were: 4. Beeing too much builder, showing how to be suprised from a sudden attack of 5 horsmen...

oh yes! I remember one game when I was alone on a big island. I disbanded all my Warriors after Despotism (I had them for happiness since I had no luxuries) and 'forgot' to build any military, including any fleet of course. Imagine what I did when I saw an Ironclad escorting a Caravel heading towards me.

	30-04-2003 15:54									#17
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As many of you, I often miss to have a pro-active diplomacy. Another mistake is perhaps to play too balanced rather than going 100% for one strategy.

	30-04-2003 18:18									#18
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1) Wide city spacing.
2) Getting sidetracked building improvements/wonders when I need more troops.
3) Not devoting resources toward getting across the ocean & meeting the civs not on my continent soon enough.

I'm sure there's more.

-Arrian

	30-04-2003 20:00									#19
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I think I get most of it right but checking with the AI's for possible deals is time consuming and I often forget.

The one thing I don't do enough is sell techs to the AI's. I am constantly surprised at how much they will pay if they have it. Often a good deal with two or three civs will get you to the next tech first and then you can sell that one and repeat.

	30-04-2003 20:29									#20
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A really silly one that no one has mentioned yet: I almost always irrigate tiles with resources on them (if possible). I just hate the look of a Mine on Wines, Wheat and Cattle.

I do many other things that are bad strategy, but this one comes to mind as the most freakish.


Dominae

	30-04-2003 20:49									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I almost always irrigate tiles with resources on them (if possible). I just hate the look of a Mine on Wines, Wheat and Cattle.

I never thought it would be possible, but here's a case where a graphics mod would actually improve your game!

	30-04-2003 21:05									#22
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quote: Originally posted by alexman I never thought it would be possible, but here's a case where a graphics mod would actually improve your game!

Say, that's not a bad idea. Here I go into the Files forum...


Dominae

	30-04-2003 23:12									#23
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Lots of things. I don't micromanage every turn -- certainly don't readjust citizen laborers every turn (beyond the very early game). I don't check for deals every turn. I build too many improvements. I covet wonders even when unnecessary. I underprioritize naval units meaning I rarely haver the stomach for building up a great invasion force early even when the opportunity presents itself. Too many to list.

Catt

	30-04-2003 23:39									#24
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Oh, yeah, that too. Not micromanaging every city every turn. I just don't have the patience for that. I try to do it with my capitol in the early going, but after that, forgettaboutit. I've only just started incorporating "short rushing" into my strategy, and I'm still not really doing it right.

Another thing: spending tons of cash on horribly corrupt cities to change them into merely mostly corrupt cities. I have a thing with battling corruption. It's a righteous struggle.

-Arrian

	30-04-2003 23:41									#25
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I drink too much beer when I play.

	30-04-2003 23:45									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Jawa Jocky I drink too much beer when I play.

I forgot that one. Add it to my list.

Catt

	30-04-2003 23:51									#27
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Jawa

would it be considered bad strategy if you still win 90-95% of the time?

I think there comes a point where you can say, "I know there are better ways to do this, but what does it matter if I do it wrong and still win."

	01-05-2003 01:17									#28
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- City placement, no question. I have much to learn about this.

- build huge numbers of workers (not a problem) but after a point will set full third to Shift-A.

- concentrate too much on military tactics at the expense of other game concepts.

- If a game has been too peaceful, enter into MPPs for the chance at a "wild card" war.

- Do not micromanage cities enough. I have much to learn about this as well.

- Forget to max out my gold a couple of turns before getting a tech.

- Stay in war a few turns too many for "vengeance" reasons instead pulling out (in terms of game play) in a more timely manner.

- And, many, many, many others.

	01-05-2003 08:01									#29
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You know, this thread could inspire some great AU games. Give us situations where the above are tested, and so many will participate to learn how to be better civers.

This is the best thread I have read in a LONG time.

And micromanaging every turn? I don't do that and I didn't think ANYONE could stand it, especially on a huge map. Let alone having to try and finish the game with all that delay! I do micromanage by maxing production and reducing surplus food to zero at pop 12 before Hospitals, including terrain improvement changes, making citizens Entertainers if it means WLTKD in corrupt cities and maxing production durign a GA, but no more than that! Do you top players really micromanage everything every turn?

	01-05-2003 08:44									#30
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-I definately don't micromanage laborers after my first three cities or so; it's just way too much hassle.
-I like to go for optimal city sites, which aren't always necessarily the best for the immediate future.
-The Lux slider. I know I don't use it nearly as efficiently as it can be.