01-05-2003 02:06									#1
	US to pull out of Germany Put an end to popups!

Rumsfeld indicates U.S. troops to be pulled out of Germany

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has been visting Iraq this Wednesday. Following a stop in the southern city of Basra, Rumsfeld moved onto the capital, Baghdad. He met with the U.S. appointed administrator for Iraq, Jay Garner. Later, he spoke to U.S. soldiers at Baghdad's airport. Asked about rumours that Washington was planning to pull troops out of Germany, Rumsfeld indicated that the rumours were true, but that the details had not yet been worked out. Those comments came one day after Rumsfeld announced that U.S. troops were pulling out of Saudi Arabia.

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,33..._855656,00.html

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Europe will be on their own pretty soon... I remember Bush saying before 9/11 that he would not be very inclined to intervene in world affairs that did not directly effect the interests of the United States. So I guess it is time for Europe to form their own army.

Last edited by Lincoln on 01-05-2003 at 02:12

	01-05-2003 02:09									#2
	Put an end to popups!

We already have a SA thread going. As for the second, they are moving out of Germany, and into Eastern european bases like in Poland, CVzech Republic, Romania and Bulgaria.

So no, the Us is not pulling out of europe any time soon.

May I add that most european states can defend thmselves form thier enemies, specially since they have none..who is going to invade Germany? Burma??

	01-05-2003 02:11									#3
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* Meanwhile, in Myanmar.... *

	01-05-2003 02:12									#4
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Good.

	01-05-2003 02:13									#5
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I changed the title thanks to GePap.

	01-05-2003 02:15									#6
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Well, I tried to change the title anyway. But I agree that we should get completely out of Europe eventually.

	01-05-2003 02:16									#7
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I'd like to see the German bases kept. There is more to Germany then the current Schoeder administration and I would hate to see a vindictive Rumesfield & Bush perminently throw away a major stategic asset just because they irked off with Schroeder.

	01-05-2003 02:17									#8
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Makes no difference to us.. but in general, good idea

	01-05-2003 02:19									#9
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I think one of their big excuses is that bases in Germany are too expensive compared to new bases in Eastern Europe, plus these countries are closer to the areas the US is likely to be sending troops into, the ME and Central Asia.

	01-05-2003 02:23									#10
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I would hate to see a vindictive Rumesfield & Bush perminently throw away a major stategic asset just because they irked off with Schroeder

This is one of Rummy's old saws and only the timing is due to recent events. When he first got into the job, Rummy advocated pulling our troops out of a number of places, like the Sinai.

Overall, I think these are pretty deft moves. Nothing should be set in stone, like it was for 50 years. We will also pre-position a lot more stuff, which hopefully will keep our troops at home more, while not adversely impacting our power projection.

	01-05-2003 02:27									#11
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Europe can defend itself quite handily already.

	01-05-2003 02:29									#12
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Kosovo.

	01-05-2003 02:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Kosovo.

And Serbia was about to Invade...whom exactly? Hungary? None of the intervention in ex-Yugoslavia were defensive, they were humanitarian, and to "stabilize" the region.

I am sure if the Serbians wanted to Invade Germany, they would get a fine ass whooping, before they got there.

Next try, DanS.

	01-05-2003 02:33									#14
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We spent a fortune fixing up the barracks across Germany. Oh well...

	01-05-2003 02:37									#15
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None of the intervention in ex-Yugoslavia were defensive, they were humanitarian, and to "stabilize" the region.

It was more than defensive. It was pre-emptive.

	01-05-2003 02:40									#16
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When I was in the reserves Germany was one of my favorite places to spend my two weeks. "Join the reserves and learn all the dive bars in western Germany" should have been a recruiting slogon.

	01-05-2003 02:43									#17
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I think one of their big excuses is that bases in Germany are too expensive compared to new bases in Eastern Europe, plus these countries are closer to the areas the US is likely to be sending troops into, the ME and Central Asia.

GePap, do you know what the Russians reaction to this is?

	01-05-2003 02:46									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DanS None of the intervention in ex-Yugoslavia were defensive, they were humanitarian, and to "stabilize" the region. It was more than defensive. It was pre-emptive.

to pre-empt what? a internal humanitaran crisis. Serbia was not about to invade anyone outside of its broders, given that kosovo was within its borders.

Then we have a question of acceptable force. You are correct, none of the Europeans could just send aircraft to bomb the Serbs. TYo intervene militarilly without the US they would have had to use much more bakcwards and politically expensive means, like moving heavy forces by land to Hungary and Serbia's border and threaten action from there.

but the fact is still that Serbia was in no concievable way a "danger" to any other European state, specially the Big Ones.

	01-05-2003 02:46									#19
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Serbia invading Germany...

Sounds like somebody is trying to get a job at FoxNews or the new Iraqi Information Ministry.

	01-05-2003 02:47									#20
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 GePap, do you know what the Russians reaction to this is?

none that matters. They already have dropped most complaints about NATO expansion, and once these states join NATO, they have every right to host forces from allied states.

	01-05-2003 02:50									#21
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There was some talk in Germany about limiting how we can use our bases if we go to war in Iraq. I think it would be best to move bases to European countries that are more US friendly.

	01-05-2003 02:51									#22
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And in the end the Germans empossed no restrictions at all.....

	01-05-2003 02:52									#23
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Let's boycott them just to be safe.

	01-05-2003 02:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And in the end the Germans empossed no restrictions at all.....

True. But there seemed to be a real possibility that they would; another less pragmatic leader at the helm and who knows what would have happened. Germany is a country with a strong pacifist feeling, there is a good chance if we ever want to go to war again that Germany will still be anti-war

	01-05-2003 02:55									#25
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Damn good beer eh Oerdin?


I'll never forget the Germand that lived around Hof, which was very close to the border. Those were good people who understood the circumstances in which they lived, and appreciated the Americans barracked there. The Germans who were away from the border were a society in total denial and treated us pretty badly. I'd have traded them for the East Germans any day. Get some people in the West who understood what it was that we protected them from.

That's what's good about the move to the east. The people in these newly freed countries will appreciate the troops we send to protect their freedom.

We MUST redeploy while the Russians are on the ropes.

	01-05-2003 02:57									#26
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So when will the Russians be joining NATO?

	01-05-2003 03:00									#27
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Yeah, we should move our bases to the Ukraine. The most likely conflicts in the region will be between the likes of Byelorussia and Poland, the Caucasus, Central Asia, the Middle East and Pakistan and India. No one is going to attack Old Europe. However New Europe borders on some very uncivilized types, including Beylorussia and Mother Russia. The Caucasus are torn by Islamic extremism. Ditto, Central Asia and the Middle East.

	01-05-2003 03:04									#28
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Ned

gs23, they'll get some kind of associated status where they tell us where their forces are and we invite them to all the BBQs.