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Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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  Old Post 01-05-2003 18:12 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Israel kills 10 Palestinians Increase Your PM Length

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...el_palestinians



I asked how many they would kill, I guess I have been answered.

Why is it that they always kill more than the suicide bomber?

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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Israeli Troops Kill 10 Palestinians
12 minutes ago

By DAN PERRY, Associated Press Writer

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Just hours after international mediators presented Israel and the Palestinians with a "road map" to peace, Israeli troops stormed a militant stronghold in the Gaza Strip (news - web sites) early Thursday. Eight Palestinians were killed in an ensuing gunfight, including two boys aged 2 and 13.


AP Photo


AP Photo
Slideshow: Mideast Conflict

EU, Mideast Officials Set to Work on 'Road Map'
(AP Video)



It was the most intense gunbattle in Gaza in 31 months of fighting. Separately, two Palestinians were killed in an exchange of fire with soldiers in the West Bank.


The fighting came as Israeli and Palestinian leaders voiced conflicting interpretations of the long-awaited "road map" peace plan, the latest attempt by international mediators to end the violence.


Diplomats representing the so-called Quartet of Mideast mediators — the United States, European Union (news - web sites), United Nations (news - web sites) and Russia — presented the peace plan to Israeli and Palestinian leaders on Wednesday after Mahmoud Abbas took office as the first Palestinian prime minister.


The target of the raid was the home of Yousef Abu Hein, a top Hamas fugitive, in the Shijaiyah neighborhood in Gaza City. The Israeli military said that troops came under heavy fire and eight soldiers were wounded.


Intense fighting continued into the afternoon. Palestinians were armed with assault rifles and anti-tank missiles, and some rigged wiring to large canisters that appeared to hold explosives.


Dr. Fadel Abu Hein, a prominent child psychologist and a brother of the wanted man, said his four-story apartment building came under intense fire.


"We are sitting in full darkness. Children are screaming. We are trying to calm them down, but bullets are coming from all directions," he said.


After daybreak, hundreds of bystanders thronged the area of battle. An AP reporter saw two boys, ages 12 and 14, hit by Israeli fire as they tried to run away from a burst of shooting. The 14-year-old was struck by a bullet in the neck, and doctors later said he was paralyzed from the neck down.


Among those killed were four gunmen, two adult civilians, including a mentally handicapped man, and two boys, ages two and 13, doctors said. Forty Palestinians were wounded, including 12 who were in critical condition.


Two-year-old Amer Ayad was hit by a bullet to the head while he was near a window in his home, said his father Ahmed, a blacksmith. "Is this the new peace President Bush (news - web sites) promised?" Ayad said. "They wrote the answer using the blood of my son."


The incursion came a day after Hamas and another Palestinian group claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing in a Tel Aviv pub. The blast killed three bystanders and wounded 55 others. It was not clear whether the Israeli incursion was in response to the bombing.


The fighting underscored the difficulties in implementing the road map. Yet, there is some hope that the plan will succeed in ending the fighting where others have failed.


It is supported by a rare global consensus that neither of the warring sides wants to rebuff. Also, it comes at a time when U.S. clout in the Middle East is at a high point in the wake of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s ouster in Iraq (news - web sites).


"For the first time in a very long time, Israel and the international community have a partner to go back to the table with," U.N. envoy Terje Roed-Larsen told The Associated Press after meeting Abbas. "We have, hopefully, a peace process going."


The two sides started the process at odds. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites)'s office issued a statement saying he had received the document "for the purpose of formulating comments on the wording." Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath, in contrast, called for "implementing the road map immediately."


Palestinian leaders accused Israel of trying to sabotage the new peace plan. The Gaza raid was meant to "create more provocation, to push for more Palestinian reaction to the Israeli aggression," Mohammed Dahlan, a senior security official, said Thursday, after the first Cabinet meeting chaired by Abbas.





Acting U.S. consul-general Jeff Feltman said "the road map is a guideline, it's not a sacred text or treaty." Larsen also said implementation would be negotiated, and a diplomatic source said the United States might dispatch an envoy for the task.

The three-year outline starts with a Palestinian crackdown on terror groups and an Israeli freeze on Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, combined with a "progressive" Israeli pullout from the autonomous Palestinian zones its troops have reoccupied during the current round of fighting.

Both governments say they want to end violence that has killed 2,287 people on the Palestinian side and 763 people on the Israeli side since September 2000. But past plans have failed.

Israel's most important objection is to the implication that it must carry out its part at the same time as the expected Palestinian crackdown on militants, instead of making an end to all violence as a condition for Israeli steps.

In a speech Tuesday, Abbas pledged to collect illegally held weapons, and condemned terrorism "in all its forms."

But it's a monumental task for his battered Palestinian Authority (news - web sites). And the militants' determination to fight on was underscored by Wednesday's suicide bombing hours before Abbas was sworn in.

The Tel Aviv attack was claimed jointly by Hamas and the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, linked to his own Fatah (news - web sites) movement but splintered into rogue gangs. A group spokesman said the bombing was a message that "nobody can disarm the resistance movements without a political solution."

CyberGnu is offline CyberGnu
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Apr 1999
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Ahh, but this time they weren't trying to kill a suicide bomber, they were trying to kill a peace plan...

Az is offline Az
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 01-05-2003 18:20
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quote:
Why is it that they always kill more than the suicide bomber?

because Israel is operating with a force far larger than any suicide bombers? It's obvious.

My Wife Hates CIV is offline My Wife Hates CIV
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Jan 1970
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'Why is it that they always kill more than the suicide bomber?'

because maybe one day they hope these people will figure out that suicide bombers are not the way to solve this. hopefully they'll be someone left when they figure that out. talk about a bunch of brainwashed people.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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Ming? I think this is grounds for a banning.

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
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May 2001
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  Old Post 01-05-2003 18:41
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when you strap explosives to your body and blow yourself up on innocent people you're the ***ing definition of brainwashed.

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it seems like one would not have to spell it out like above... but yes.

you dont see too many 40 year old suicide bombers. hmmm???? how come we dont see any 'leaders' of this movement strap on these belts??? freakin saddam needed training.

DaShi is offline DaShi
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 01-05-2003 18:49
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...el_palestinians



I asked how many they would kill, I guess I have been answered.

Why is it that they always kill more than the suicide bomber?


Because suicide bombing is ineffective.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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quote:
Among those killed were four gunmen, two adult civilians, including a mentally handicapped man, and two boys, ages two and 13, doctors said. Forty Palestinians were wounded, including 12 who were in critical condition

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that ?

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'Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that ? '


no - but those who agree with you are few.

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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 01-05-2003 19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
quote:
Among those killed were four gunmen, two adult civilians, including a mentally handicapped man, and two boys, ages two and 13, doctors said. Forty Palestinians were wounded, including 12 who were in critical condition

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that ?


No Spiffor, your not. Unfortunately, it will take both sides realizing that killing each other is not the way to learn to live together.

Hamas and other terrorist organizations must come to understand that their actions cannot go without price. Sadly, it is at times a high one.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by PLATO1003
No Spiffor, your not. Unfortunately, it will take both sides realizing that killing each other is not the way to learn to live together.

Absolutely. I have no problems with the gunmen being killed and the leader's house being attacked. But I think anybody should be as mad as during the terract when it comes to the kids and to the mentally handicapped, who were completely innocent in the matter

quote:
Hamas and other terrorist organizations must come to understand that their actions cannot go without price. Sadly, it is at times a high one.

And the Israeli military has to understand it must be cautious when their guns are blazing If not there will be a price for Israeli innocents too.

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King
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 01-05-2003 19:25
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quote:
And the Israeli military has to understand it must be cautious when their guns are blazing If not there will be a price for Israeli innocents too.


And thus the cycle continues...

DanS is offline DanS
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Jan 1970
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As far as I'm concerned, the gunmen were fair targets. But Israel's ratio of fair targets to innocent civilians isn't very good (of course, this could be at least partially the fault of the Hamas gunmen).

Al'Kimiya is offline Al'Kimiya
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Nov 2000
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  Old Post 01-05-2003 19:59
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The main disadvantage of these raids is that they boost the breeding rate exponential thus giving an almost endless supply of bombers in their pre-teens. What is the medium age of arabs in the terrirtories now.. 16?

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at least the Israeli military is targeting the gunmen. it's a shame that others die also. but look at the other side. they DO target the civilians and go out of there way to target as many as possible. savages!

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 01-05-2003 20:14 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Israel is trying to defend itself from thugs. I believe that Israel and Palestine must exist side by side. But the terrorists forcing Israel on the offensive are trying to destroy these peace plans and get delusional people like Cybergnu and Paiktis, to believe them.

Israel does not target civilians... but civilians get killed. Which is deeply saddening. Palestinian terrorists target cafes, malls, and clubs. All Civilian areas. How can Israelis live when they are constantly under threat? It is like with ETA. They don't target government buildings anymore.. they target civilians to cause fear.

I got one thing to say to terrorists: You can run but you can't hide.

And to hell with those here who think badly about Israel.

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Dec 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Israel is trying to defend itself from thugs. I believe that Israel and Palestine must exist side by side. But the terrorists forcing Israel on the offensive are trying to destroy these peace plans and get delusional people like Cybergnu and Paiktis, to believe them.

Israel does not target civilians... but civilians get killed. Which is deeply saddening. Palestinian terrorists target cafes, malls, and clubs. All Civilian areas. How can Israelis live when they are constantly under threat? It is like with ETA. They don't target government buildings anymore.. they target civilians to cause fear.

I got one thing to say to terrorists: You can run but you can't hide.

And to hell with those here who think badly about Israel.


Well put.

Edan is offline Edan
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Dec 2002
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I think that, given that the road map to peace has restarted (yet again. I wonder what makes this plan so unique that it will work where all the others have failed. ) Israel probably should have gone to Abu Mazen and worked together with him to try to get the Hamas members captured (or killed ) while working together to avoid civilian casualtis. Of course, there's always the possibility that Abu Mazen (or someone else in the PA) would warn the Hamas members before hand so that they would go into hiding, r surround themselves with even more civilians, but it would have been a good test (by fire ) for him. OTOH, he's only just been made PM, so he probably hasn't stabalized all of his power (or found out who he could trust) yet, and with the peace process only just starting, I don't no how feasable or realistic it would have been.

However, the civilian deaths here is the responsibility of the hamas terrorists. To take an analogy, if someone is trying to kill me in plain clothes and uses a hostage to protect themselves when doing so, I would have no hesitation in shooting that person to defend myself, even at the possible death of the hostage. I would try to avoid killing the hostage, if possible, and I will grieve their death but I'm not willing to give up my right to life just because someone trying to kill me hides behind civilians in plain clothes.

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Being called deluded by Fez... Can't actually think of a stronger proof that I'm right.

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quote:
Among those killed were four gunmen, two adult civilians, including a mentally handicapped man, and two boys, ages two and 13, doctors said. Forty Palestinians were wounded, including 12 who were in critical condition

Why the **** are they putting children anywhere near a battlefield?

gsmoove23 is offline gsmoove23
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Oct 2002
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Uh, where else are you going to put them in Gaza. Its not like you have much room to work with. Besides, it was an Israeli attack. They chose the battlefield, no one else.

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quote:
Originally posted by CyberGnu
Being called deluded by Fez... Can't actually think of a stronger proof that I'm right.


Provided something more than a half assed response and people might actually listen to you.

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quote:
Originally posted by gsmoove23
Besides, it was an Israeli attack. They chose the battlefield, no one else.

The terrorist chose where to hide, and he chose a heavily populated area. Also notice this quote from the AP report:
quote:
After daybreak, hundreds of bystanders thronged the area of battle.

Why are they heading towards the site of the battle?

gsmoove23 is offline gsmoove23
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Oct 2002
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quote:
Once only the three fugitives were left in the building, troops blew it up. Doctors said the three brothers were already dead by the time of the explosion, noting their bodies were riddled with bullets. Yousef Abu Hein was a top Hamas bombmaker who was imprisoned both by Israel and the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites).


The blast was so powerful that more than a dozen adjacent homes were damaged, some severely.


I don't think they had a choice in the matter. Perhaps you would be more pleased if palestinian militants built something along the lines of the Cobra Command Center out in the middle of nowhere. That would certainly make things simple for the Israeli airforce. Hey, the troubles in Israel would be over tomorrow. What a thought!!

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quote:
Originally posted by gsmoove23


I don't think they had a choice in the matter. Perhaps you would be more pleased if palestinian militants built something along the lines of the Cobra Command Center out in the middle of nowhere. That would certainly make things simple for the Israeli airforce. Hey, the troubles in Israel would be over tomorrow. What a thought!!

Yep. Certainly would be wonderful.

Ned is offline Ned
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 02-05-2003 05:42
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I cannot understand why the Israeli's are so gentle. All they do is ***-for-tat. This only guarantees Hamas's continued survival as an entity.

They should take out Hamas to the root. This is war. Conduct it as such.

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Is DanS the only reasonable person among non pro-israelis?

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DanS isn't pro-Israeli ?

And if you don't think of me as reasonable, then i give you my

 
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