15-07-2003 03:03									#61
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Yes, hahaha, that must be their #1 priority, Fortify in that empty fort.

	15-07-2003 20:10									#62
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Land barbarians will never appear on squares that have been "civilised". Obviously they can't show up on the same square as one of your units, but equally they can't spawn on a tile that has been improved in some way. So if there is a road, railroad, irrigation, etc. on a square then the land barbs cannot spawn there. They can spawn a few squares away and then move onto improved squares (or more likely into fortresses), but they cannot begin in a "civilised" square. This has absolutely no effect whatsoever on pirates, and barbs can still come out of huts because settlers can't fly, but cover your island in roads, ensure that enemy civs don't pillage them and no land barbs will ever appear there.
Some people think it's a waste of time to road all the squares, and most often it is, but if you want to forget about barbs and concentrate on building a massive score then get the army of settlers to civilise the entire planet and barbs will be history.

PS - When I said that settlers can't fly, I meant that you can't road a hut square without popping the hut first. Just in case people don't understand what I was on about there

	15-07-2003 20:17									#63
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Some people think it's a waste of time to road all the squares

Well you can put me down as one of those people...........all those improvements just to avoid some wussy ol' barbs seems insane.

	15-07-2003 20:22									#64
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Agreed re wuss barbs. (For superhighways, now that's a different story.)

	15-07-2003 20:31									#65
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I never said I did it!

I'm just trying to help some people out and increase the sum of knowledge on show here.

Although they disappear when you start getting partisans, I'd miss the juicy bonuses you get for barb regicide. That's a cornerstone of the duke economy for most of the early part of the game (plus extortion from AI civs). Partisans are a pain in the bum, but I do love the reports the Defence minister sends you when you send a cruise missile into the heart of a recently-spawned barb army of partisans and artillery:

"43 units lost"

is quite funny!

	31-07-2003 02:32									#66
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I have tested the defense bonus against barbs in cities: The firepower (maybe hitpoints, but i think it is firepower) of the defender in capital (=a city with a Palace) is multiplied by 6 and in a normal city by 2.5 . (It means that fortified warrior on a river in normal city is about equal to an attacking barb archer) Edit: this is valid only if you have at least 2 cities. And it looks that AI defenders have even better bonus.

Test result:
Defense of AI units against barbs (barbs may be human or AI) is doubled (or attack of barbs is halved, I didn't test so thoroughly). This applies to any AI deferender, not only in a city.
I tested when barbs were led by human but I think it applies also when barbs are AI. It didn't depend on difficulty (same results with King and Deity).

	31-07-2003 17:04									#67
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker This applies to any AI deferender, not only in a city. I tested when barbs were led by human but I think it applies also when barbs are AI. It didn't depend on difficulty (same results with King and Deity).

Hmmm, suprising. It doesn't seem to jive with my experiences, but it has been awhile since I played with an AI.

I'm assuming that you tested in SP mode.


RAH

	31-07-2003 21:37									#68
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Yes.

	31-07-2003 23:41									#69
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I doubt there is a difference, but you know all of us MPers are paranoid.

	02-08-2003 02:28									#70
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I've seen AI Phalanx defend against multiple Legion attackers with little strength loss, so I would believe it.

RE Roading Everywhere (above): Figuring out the "optimal" RD/RR routes for trade bonuses is a pain, so if you've got spare time for Set/Eng just R everything. You'll see TR values pop up between domestic cities.

	05-08-2003 19:46									#71
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In a recent game while playing a Republic, the Senate overruled me when I attacked a barb. Can anyone tell me why?

	05-08-2003 23:19									#72
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I did not know about the roads-no barbs trick. Guess I assumed that barbs wouldn't pop up in the city radius, and I seldom road outside the radius. Well, to be more accurate, I should say that I seldom have a lot of land that's outside a city radius for long

Nonetheless, well done

	06-08-2003 00:26									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Wharf Rat In a recent game while playing a Republic, the Senate overruled me when I attacked a barb. Can anyone tell me why?

Never seen that.

	06-08-2003 00:53									#74
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It happened. Two conditions worth noting: There was a barbarian city which I was using as a 'farm' for NONE units. Also, I had spied on the city to see if there were any improvements. I am wondering if one of these factors gave the barbs the standing of a real civilization.

	06-08-2003 01:49									#75
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Had you investigated that city that turn?
Was the barb city originally one of yours?

	06-08-2003 18:37									#76
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No and yes, respectively. I was still in Monarchy when I investigated the city.

	06-08-2003 19:04									#77
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I know that it has absolutely nothing to do with the question here, but why didn't you just buy the city? You'd have got all the defenders for free and not reduced the population by attacking it.
Barb cities come very cheap and you can get round senate interference by just throwing money at the barbs rather than units. It's not as if you can demand tribute from the barbs or insist they leave your territory.

Is the resolution on your monitor not all that?
Maybe the barb was from the orange civ?

	06-08-2003 20:39									#78
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Duke, you misunderstand.... I was stopped from attacking barbarian Units 40 squares away from the barb city and not produced by it. I eventually did buy the city, but only after slaking my thirst on tastey NONE units.

	06-08-2003 20:45									#79
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It was not the orange civ. The message actually came up "DO YOU WISH TO DECLARE WAR ON THE BARBARIANS?"

I went ahead and then got, "YOU ARE OVERRULED BY THE SENATE, ACTION CANCELLED."

	06-08-2003 21:23									#80
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Never seen that one, but heard someone else said they saw it, many moons ago.

	07-08-2003 10:50									#81
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quote: Originally posted by rah Never seen that one, but heard someone else said they saw it, many moons ago.

I've seen it, but not lately.

	07-08-2003 14:02									#82
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But the barbarians are always at war with you!

I wonder if the Senate would have said the same thing had you allowed them to attack you first. Maybe it is because the barbs actually have a city.

The Senate are stupid anyway.

	07-08-2003 14:59									#83
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I remember someone bringing this up, though to my recollection I've never seen it. It wasn't a Mac idiosyncracy was it?

	07-08-2003 17:09									#84
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What I remember was the person said that it only came up once. Later on, he never even got the senate message when attacking barbs.

	07-08-2003 18:17									#85
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I'm a Mac user and often play in Democracy.

I've never had Senate interference with any Barb interaction, random or city-based. (Of course, when I wish to re-take a Barb NONE farm, I usually bribe, to get all the units and maintain city size.)

	07-08-2003 19:59									#86
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I did bribe the city (later). I was not attacking the city. I was attacking random barbs on a different part of the map when I heard from the Senate. Also, I have a PC, not a Mac.

	08-08-2003 19:22									#87
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sounds possible, after all, you can also establish an embasy with them.
(The dip vanishes but off course there is nothing in the diplo screen)

	14-08-2003 00:21									#88
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Yes, when the Barbs have at least one city they are treated as a "cvilization". You can try to establish an embassy (the Dip disappears, nothing on F3), and they can do research. You can even get a tech from taking their city, if they have anything you dont have (hah!). In Rep/Dem there can be Senate interference with attacking Barb units, but if you let them attack you several times it will eventually disappear. It's the "down side" of keeping a Barb city as a NONE farm.

	14-08-2003 20:50									#89
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That's wierd, wild stuff, 'Phant. Given my preferred strategy of minimal military and focusing on trade and science early, that makes a barb city a very questionable enterprise. I depend on being able to use a couple of attackers to cover wide swaths of space...

	15-08-2003 17:23									#90
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After I started playing MP, I also stopped using none farms. They don't stay barb cities for long in MP games. At least not on our small rock worlds.