02-05-2003 16:40									#1
	Options Full PM-box? Change here!

You may have read Eli's note in the moves column.

notyoueither had asked for a chat - and he and I talked last night for about an hour. I don't have the chat log - but I can summarize the conversation.

He asked how things were going. And noted a slackening of the number of troops coming their way.

I said that we were 'between a rock and a hard place' without giving any more details.

I asked him how much world support they had. He said lots of talk - but that was about it. I said much the same as us, although we did have an ally.

I alluded to the fact that the other civs would see us supported only sufficiently to keep the war going, but not enough to force a decisiion. They had already come to that conclusion. That it was in the rest of the world's interest to see the two of us knock heads.

He asked if we were aware that we had broken a NAP. I said yes we were, and that we had given this some serious thought before doing it .

We then talked options. I indicated to him that peace for us was not an option. That we needed land. Mere survival is not what we are after. He understood.

Which left the only viable alternative - as he put it - 'to go romping on Bob'. They said they would want concessions. I said that that would not go over too well with us.

So - we talked how it might work: (Option 2)
-they would help with a war on Bob. We also talked about who might break ranks on the continent.
-we give them the land south of Elipolis.
- they guarantee us a supply of iron. This would be their safeguard that we behave ourselves. They could always pull it.

I said I would discuss this at our end before he did at theirs. I said 'no promises.' I also said lets keep the negotiations between us. I don't want some of the otehr GS personalities involved.

Comments? Thoughts?

	02-05-2003 18:17									#2
	Got spare money?

quote: Which left the only viable alternative - as he put it - 'to go romping on Bob'. They said they would want concessions. I said that that would not go over too well with us. So - we talked how it might work: (Option 2) -they would help with a war on Bob. We also talked about who might break ranks on the continent. -we give them the land south of Elipolis. - they guarantee us a supply of iron. Yah, right. This would be their safeguard that we behave ourselves. They could always pull it.

Giving them the land south of Elipolis is effectively giving away over half of our current landmass....for what? The promise to help us with an invasion on Bob?!? I say, not "no" but HELL NO!

Since our forces are taking heavy damage from those catapults, I suggest we back-off, heal ourselves, lick our wounds, and wait for a better chance - but stay at war with them. It would be nice to either take (preferably) or raze Monsoon before we regroup...

And what's the deal with Feudalism and GoW? Are they just giving us "lip service" and basically blowing us off concerning the advance?!?

	03-05-2003 02:34									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

In any case, we have to withdraw. So let's withdraw. But let's not decide on any deals yet.

	03-05-2003 20:58									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have not read the public forum yet. Will that shortly.

We need to withdrawn our troops to save what we have for later. They might not make it.. I suspect GS will take them out once the catapults reduce them down to a couple of shields each.

I thought we asked GS before about support for a return to Bob and they were completely quiet about it. I think GS is getting lip service from the other civs because the other civs want to hedge their bets. I wonder what the other civs will do if/when one of us gets clost to being eliminated. If we were to give GS the land south of Elipolis, with their expansion rate they would have it all settled before we could have a couple of cities on Bob. Would they be willing to send a couple of settlers to Bob and gift us those cities too?

	03-05-2003 21:59									#5
	Tired of ads?

Giving the land south of Elipolis is stupid. If they want it they should fight for it.

	05-05-2003 09:35									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

yah

if we quit now, I think they will enforce unteneable sactions

I really don't think we ahve any choice but to fight

and I thin that we are losing right now

(BTW, usually I just lok for posts that it says I haven't read, it says that I have read all the ones in here, have no one been doing anything for a while?)

Jon Miller

	06-05-2003 00:22									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I spent some time playing PTW this weekend. This game reminds me of the AI where they send lots of foot soldiers. I work on them with my quicker units as they slowly move forward. Once they reach anything of value I have good defenders in position and they do not have enough left to do serious damage. I normally don't do a lot of serious fighting with foot soldiers. One of the problems with entirely using foot soldiers is that you must telegraph your plan. They have no alternative for a quick moving unit that appears out of the darkness in a surprise move.

It would be nice to think peace is an option but somehow I don't feel it is. Vox and GS going romping on Bob puts us back in the position we were in to start with when GF proposed the war against GS to get us off Bob. All we are doing is trading one rock for another.

	06-05-2003 04:06									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

OK - I have been thinking about this for awhile now - and I vote for sticking withing the war. Harry is right about trading one rock for another - and besides - I like the guys on GoW and RP. They are more fun to be allies with.

We are going to have two civs helping with troops. That will allow us to put teh squeeze on NeuD regarding some very favorable trades - like gifting horses for 40 turns or so. Lego has already invested heavily - but we may be able to convince them to start sending troops.

So - I agree with the others who voted to stick at - let's pull back - consolidate - and hit em again - this time with company.

	06-05-2003 04:37									#9
	Put an end to popups!

No matter how it turns out it will be a lot more fun with GoW and RP than being under GS's thumb the rest of the game.

I wouldn't press Lego for troops. Unless we suddenly find a short cut between Lego and GS it will take too long for 3 move galleys to get units from one side of the map to the other. Lego is more valuable providing financial assistance and, once we get our harbor, providing resources.

	06-05-2003 06:29									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I concur whole-heartedly Beta.

	06-05-2003 12:32									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

while the war may be unwinnable, I don't like the prospects of peace.

I sure wish we had some fast units. One reason I dislike the persians. I like 2 move uu's. I have never been a big fan of the Immortals. I knew we were pushing too close to the age of pikeman.

fight on I say.

	12-05-2003 08:04									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

is it me or is no one posting here?

Is everyone alive?

	12-05-2003 08:19									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Diss. Well, since I've responded so quickly, I guess it isn't dead.

I believe Beta is out of town until tomorrow, so after he retruns (and plays the turn - yet again [the turn that is]) we can all push forward and the forum will come back to life.

	12-05-2003 08:33									#14
	sorry Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

been getting used to not having classes anymore and forget to come to the the vox forum

	12-05-2003 08:51									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

No problem Argha, you haven't missed much.

	13-05-2003 00:20									#16
	Remove this text

Yeah, that crash sure took the steam out of this game. I took my laptop with me this weekend and played a little PTW in the evenings after the dog events. The game was looking interesting, for a change. Last night I played a few more turns and then it crashed. I have not tried to see if I can get it to continue yet. The crashes sure dampens one's interest for the game.

	13-05-2003 00:36									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It looks like the game may be coming back to life.

quote: Trip and nye back away from the table once again - Trip with the pads in his hand. He yells - "Clear!" A shot of Apolyton energy is fired through the game. It twitches. There is a pulse - it is faint, and irregular. Don't go far with that crash cart.

I have replayed the turn and sent it on. Hmmm...

	13-05-2003 06:06									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Great analogy Beta!

Here's to keeping our fingers crossed...