02-05-2003 21:24									#1
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Yet another city placement thread. I found out the discussion had taken place in two or three threads. Also, there are various plans lying around; I'm not sure on how "definitive" they are.

I found three viable plans:

1 BigFree's plan #1
2 BigFree's plan #2
3 Trip's plan


Pay special attention to the jungle cities:

1

• The central jungle city is not on the river;
  
• The dyes city is not on the river, but it is on the coast;
  

2

• The central jungle city is on the river;
  
• The dyes city is on the river, but not on the coast;
  

3

• The central jungle city needs only one jungle clearance;
  
• The central jungle city is on the river;
  
• The dyes city is on the coast, but not on the river;
  

Please discuss!

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 02-05-2003 at 21:34

	02-05-2003 21:28									#2
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I would prefer a much denser placement with some temp cities perhaps to help out with production at this stage.

	02-05-2003 21:39									#3
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I personally like the city E of the mountain (in Trip's plan). Only one tile of jungle clearing to gain access to it, and it is rather close to Poly for corruption benefits.

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 02-05-2003 at 23:27

	02-05-2003 22:13									#4
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In both of the top two plans, the cities are in the wrong order.
The City labeled #4 in both cases is the least useful, both in terms of production potiential, and number of new land tiles claimed.

	02-05-2003 23:25									#5
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Actually, the 4th city is very well placed to assist us. Due to distance it will be the least corrupt possible. Give it 2 grass and 2 hills and it can be a very useful factory for units and ships which will help us get through the difficult early game in our position. Later, it can be turned to a mostly commerce city with a harbour.

There are a couple of tiles of coast further up that I would like to see though. We certainly do not want to be wasting any maritime specials that may be there.

	02-05-2003 23:52									#6
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My plan was actually just a candidate for 2-tile spacing. It has quite a few problems, and I probably need to modify it quite a bit. I plan on merging plans 1 and 3 so hopefully we can get more cities on the river and closer. There are things I like from each. I like how plan 1 has both cities on rivers, and a coastal city, but its very delicately spaced, and it will be a challenge to get those cities worth anything. Plan 3 has more compact spacing, but fewer cities with fresh water.

Edit: Looks like neither city in plan 1 has fresh water... how the map plays games with your mind...

	03-05-2003 00:08									#7
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Alternate optimized 2-tile spacing:



This makes the best use of our tiles, though we'll only have 1 additional city with access to fresh water. However, I feel that this is probably the best way to use our land, even so.

	03-05-2003 01:13									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Could we get that town west of the mountain (the mountain with towns placed on either side of it moved SW twice and drastically lower the priority of the southernmost town?

My thinking here is at some point we *CAN* expect CDG to come after us, and we ought to make sure the town they approach first is solidly defended. My proposal for that township is on a hill, facing a river to the south- ideal footing for a defensive stronghold. It's still a river square and gives us access to gold 1 S of the city location.

I respect the needs of long-term city development, but we also need SOME nod to defense. We may have Num Mercs, but those ARE Immortals we're facing.... and moving one city for a slightly less optimal placement might be a really good move tactically speaking. Num Merc behind walls on hill across river has VERY good odds, even against Immortals...

Also, speaking from an "attack position".... if I wanted to raise pure hell for Apolyton and I saw the two cities placed on either side of that mountain, you better believe I'd beeline for it. I can threaten two cities at once that way, on a nice safe mountain to base my attacks from.

Please, please, please- at least for now, until we have a much better handle on things, trust the Friedman..... put our SW-most city on that hill by the river, next to the hill with the gold! It's not THAT big a loss in usable tiles, and it forces CDG to attack a much less enjoyable target first when they DO come looking for trouble. If they don't come, it's not that bad a location anyhow.

Let us not be completely blind to our defensive needs in following an efficient plan of placement. That hill city would give us a really nice forward defense point, but the current scheme, with all due respect, is the kind of thing that I look at and drool as a warmonger- particularly the two cities that can be menaced at once from a mountaintop!

:beg:

Trust the Friedman. Put a city- SOON- on that hill. It will establish a nice southern boundary of "claim" against Persia as well.

Heading off for the weekend- sure hope I presented this well enough before I left.

	03-05-2003 03:09									#9
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That's a good point F-P. The city to the E of the mountain could be shifted 1 tile to the SW as well, but I'm not sure what that would do to corruption.

The problem is a city on that hill will be utterly useless for a very long time (it's even farther away from the other proposed jungle cities), and will be worth next to nil.

	03-05-2003 04:02									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

After looking over my first two plans; one having the 2 southeren cities (#6 & #7) on river's and the other plan having one non-river city and one coastal access city, I made a third plan.

This one inluded and river city and a coastal access city. What's better about this plan is that #7 is founded on top of the dyes, providing immediate access to the commerece that the dyes produce. #6 allows for only 3 jungle tiles to be cleared before we can bring irrigation to out Northern cities without founding a city too close to Mingapulco, thus crowding it.

City #4 is a good move for the very next city; it'll allow more freedom of movement of troops while not sacraficing our commerce to luxeries dur to troop movements in and out of Apolyton or the other cities. #4 has good access to a few grassland land tiles, that coupled with a mined hill or two will make it very productive and non-corrupt.

City #5 is next to the "Horsies!" and has coastal access; it's a no brainer.

Cities #8 & #9 are a little trickier to deduce what is best. #8a is the logical choice sine it will have access to the sea and will have access to improved tiles before #8b will; But, #8b provides a good 'outpost' which a stong defensive watch point is created.

Cities #9a & #9b have nearly equal qualities for each; #9b would make it a coastal city, while #9a gives us a great boost to our economy by taking advantage of the commerce provided by the gold. I'm leaning towards #9a on this one; though we don't know what is off the coast there. If there's some bonus tile out there, then #9b should be the choice.

	03-05-2003 04:16									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We might want to go through the jungle with minimal spacing (1 tile) with every other city being considered a camp city for later abandonment to workers for adding to the permanent ones.

We get the benefit of faster usefulness of all cities and later we have more room to grow some power houses.

Just a thought.

	03-05-2003 04:51									#12
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And when we disband them, that's just that many more cleared jungle tiles.

NYE, you're brilliant.

	03-05-2003 18:48									#13
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hi ,

where are my earlier messages posted in this thread

have a nice day

	05-05-2003 04:48									#14
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Why don't we just get rid of CDG ASAP so we don't have to worry about them coming after us??

I like Trip's latest plan, although I've also given though on NYE's 1-tile spacing. IMO, the 1-tile spacing would pretty much solve the problem of crappy cities in crappy terrain. It would be interesting if we modified Trip's plan with 1-tile spacing in the outer rim of jungle cities.

As for defense, F-P raises some good points but any invader of a 2-tile empire would get murdered trying to get past the first rim of cities. We'd have 4 cities in the front line connected by roads, by basing offensive units in those cities, they can quickly be deployed towards any stack that CDG sends towards us and strike within the safety of the city.

Also try taking out some Mercs fortified in that mountain, not a pleasant experience for any invader

	05-05-2003 04:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Trip And when we disband them, that's just that many more cleared jungle tiles. NYE, you're brilliant.

hi ,

, but would it not be a waste of settlers , ....

have a nice day

	05-05-2003 05:01									#16
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by the time we get around to making that last outer rim we might just be able to spare a bunch by settler pumping. Personally i'd stick to the 2-tile plan but the 1-tile deserves some more debate because it is an interesting idea.

	05-05-2003 06:33									#17
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Once again I have another map to consider our newly found Iron. We'd only have to clear one jungle tile and then road it; followed by roading the Hill with the iron for us to have access. This city and the action to get Iron under our control should be top priority right now.

Banatopia then becomes our worker/settler pump. It also becomes expendable later in the game since "Iron City" would have exactly 5 tile spacing.

	05-05-2003 09:27									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

Move it south by 1 and it will be 3 away form all of the other cities.

E_T

	05-05-2003 10:46									#19
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After recieveing the latest save and all the information in it before it was played; I made a new map with ET's very fine suggestion.

I also moved the location of "Incense City"; once it's roaded, we will have full access to it. It is better to have it in this new spot rather tan right on top. If we build right next to it we still get the use of two grassland tiles. We can then mine/road the incence and get two shields and 3 commerce from it. It also frees up some more coastal tiles for it at a later date.

	05-05-2003 13:54									#20
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I thought you just said that the location of city #4 is chosen so that Bananatopia can be abandoned later? If so, the first suggestion was better.

If Bananatopia is going to be a permanent town, the second suggestion is better.

Edit: I think the second option is better. The new city placement order would be:

1 Apolyton
2 Mingapulco
3 Bananatopia
4 Incensity (to be founded on turn 50)
5 Iron City ('4' in BF's picture)
6 Horse-on-the Sea ('5' in BF's picture)
7 Under the Mountain ('7' in BF's picture)
8 Dyes Bay ('8' in BF's picture)

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 05-05-2003 at 14:23

	05-05-2003 14:19									#21
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I agree with you BFM; but it looks like Banatopia is going to build a granery, making it a little more permanent I think. I hate disbanding cities with improvements.

Now that Apolyton is in full swing of regulary poping out settlers, we are starting to look very good compared to CDG.

	05-05-2003 19:08									#22
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I very much like the current plan, up through 9 (not that 10 has anything wrong with it, but that's a little far out).

I would suggest that nye's thought re camp cities will be appropriate for settling the SW jungle, taking defensive locations into consideration.

	05-05-2003 19:13									#23
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* Theseus is slowly catching up.

But Incensity as #4 is fine too.

	05-05-2003 19:19									#24
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::inserts another plug for "Goldville: A Luxurious City on a Hill Overlooking Persia and Protecting Us From Their Ravages"::

It would even be a good city location after the war, too!

:lug plug plug::

What better way to show our strength and remind CDG that south is much more appealing to war on than north than a solid, fortified city location right north of them?

:lug plug plug plug PLUG::



And finally, the most telling point: Incensity, Horse-by-the sea, and all those others will be available later. We are in no danger of losing those city sites. Goldville is only available NOW and will be settled by Persia later- as an excellent advance point to attack US!

	05-05-2003 20:02									#25
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hi ,

we should place a city in the five to nine line , between the horse and the nine

have a nice day

	07-05-2003 01:40									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon What better way to show our strength and remind CDG that south is much more appealing to war on than north than a solid, fortified city location right north of them?

If I were CDG, I would only be more inclined to a northern war if a city was founded on my doorstep.

	07-05-2003 12:06									#27
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100% agree with BFM

There is nothing wrong in playing for long term survival.

Goldville would start a war.

I would rather war at a time when we are guaranteed to win by overwealming strength.
A war now, would be a gamble, and possibly result in a deadlock which would only hurt both of us.

Play defensively and go for production.

	07-05-2003 12:24									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Play defensively and go for production.

...but produce at the right moment.