03-05-2003 21:52									#31
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin So how did labor fair?

They lost a lot. An awful lot.

quote: Originally posted by Clear Skies the BBC reporting that the Conservatives had done 'very well' despite the fact that they entered the election with 18 seats and came out with 18 seats

Well, considering they no longer hold any seats in the Scottish Parliament (IIRC, since trhe last election) holding on to all seats is quite an achievement. I certainly expected them to lose some.

quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Back that up or I'm going to call you a knee-jerk reactionary.

Well, I know it's only anecdotal evidence, but since they put 10,000 (approx) asylum seekers (mostly Kosovan) into Northampton, crime has increased, especially violent assaults, and race brawls have erupted. This has cooled down somewhat, but there are many examples of them starting fights. Mots of it can be explained by being in a different culture, not knowing how to act, and many things. I am not strongly anti-asylum at all (being a Lib Dem voter) but that is a commonly held belief, and not completely devoid of reason. I can't say it's true, but it's certainly not just a knee-jerk reaction. It has been a belief of many for a long time.

	03-05-2003 22:02									#32
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You sure they start the fights? From what I've heard in the local pub, I'm sure more than a few fights would have begun with a little englander mouthing off about "****ing foreigners" loud enough for anyone to hear.

The "foreign = bad" concept I've found in some people I've met is fascinatingly horrifying. A woman came into where I work and, upon hearing my unique blend of accents, quite bluntly asked "Are you foreign?". After saying I had lived in Canada for a while, she got this thoughtful expression on her face. A minute later, she looked at me again and said "Canada. Yeah, I guess they are one of the good ones."

I gave her a very English hand gesture as she left the store.

	03-05-2003 22:15									#33
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I'm sure that happens a lot (about English starting fights with foreigners) but it does happen the other way too. I am sure they start fights, I've seen it. Moreover, they specifically (or at least, a group of about 30 15-25 year old Kosovans) made it a pride thing trying to beat up as many black people as possible, trying to steal their girlfriends to provoke them at times. I know this is anecdotal, and I am sure much different happens elsewhere, but they are not blameless IMHO. I am not against economic migrants, bor asylum seekers who need asylum, but the process needs to be speeded up considerably (it shouldn't take longer than a couple of months per case, not many years).

	03-05-2003 23:56									#34
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Starchild Considering the UK takes in less than 2% of refugees in the world, I'm amazed at the asylum controversy here. The screaming about economic migrants is even more puzzling. They're coming here to work. Pay taxes. Contribute to society. How in hell did economic migrant become a dirty word?

You mentioned the upside but the downside is they also sign up for the dole, suck up social services, demand there 2nd cousins-aunt's-younger sisters-pet poodle also be admited and given the dole, and yes there most certainly is a higher crime rate in immigraint areas.

The point? The point is immigration is both a good and a bad thing and so it should be managed by the government in order to maximize the good and minimize the bad. Not to mention do we really want a person who so flagrantly breaks the law to become a citizen? There is a back log of people who want into most 1st world countries why not let in the most educated noncriminals first?

	04-05-2003 00:55									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin You mentioned the upside but the downside is they also sign up for the dole, suck up social services, demand there 2nd cousins-aunt's-younger sisters-pet poodle also be admited and given the dole, and yes there most certainly is a higher crime rate in immigraint areas. The point? The point is immigration is both a good and a bad thing and so it should be managed by the government in order to maximize the good and minimize the bad. Not to mention do we really want a person who so flagrantly breaks the law to become a citizen? There is a back log of people who want into most 1st world countries why not let in the most educated noncriminals first?

I'm not even going to sully this board with a response to that until you've stopped confusing economic migrants with asylum seekers.

Learn the difference, try making that post again, and maybe we'll get somewhere. Using this forum is like banging your head against a ****ing brick wall at times.

	04-05-2003 00:58									#36
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quote: The Claims "Our town's too nice for refugees...they will try to escape, rapists and thieves will terrorise us" Daily Express, 23/3/02 The Facts A report published by the Association of Chief Police Officers recently confirmed that there is no evidence for a higher rate of criminality among refugees and asylum seekers. In fact, having fled from their home country, they are more likely to become victims of crime in the UK. There have been countless attacks on dispersed asylum seekers around Britain, including the murder of an asylum seeker in Glasgow in 2001. The murder prompted the UN High Commissioner for Refugees to condemn the British media for provoking racial hatred.

From Oxfam.

	04-05-2003 01:00									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I'm sure that happens a lot (about English starting fights with foreigners) but it does happen the other way too. I am sure they start fights, I've seen it. Moreover, they specifically (or at least, a group of about 30 15-25 year old Kosovans) made it a pride thing trying to beat up as many black people as possible, trying to steal their girlfriends to provoke them at times. I know this is anecdotal, and I am sure much different happens elsewhere, but they are not blameless IMHO

Who is? The point is that they're just people, like us.

	04-05-2003 17:02									#38
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Yes, I agree, they are people, just like us. However, they *may* cause more violence (I have no idea about nation/world-wide figures, but in the town I live, they have shown this), either directly, or by being there. While I sypathize with their plight, I tend to think the UK might be taking too many on, with a system that cannot handle it. I don't feel to strongly about it though.

	04-05-2003 23:33									#39
	Tired of ads?

I spent most of the day in Harrogate where I helped the Conservatives regain control of Harrogate District Council after ten years of Liberal Democrat misrule. Unfortunately, here in York the yellows took control, but I shall console myself with the fact that whilst Kennedy's troops are excellent campaigners - albeit by feeding lies, mistruths and irrelevencies - they're lousy when they get into power and are being swiftly booted out in the places they've gained over the last few years.

	05-05-2003 01:09									#40
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin ... do we really want a person who so flagrantly breaks the law to become a citizen?

Well stated.


The point is that economic migrants who falsely claim to be asylum seekers are here by deceit and obtaining benefit money by fraud. The housing and other benefits provided to them are at the expense of genuine asylum seekers and other less fortunate people born in Britain.

There is a great deal of nonsense about labour shortages too; with the exception of a small number of very specialised skills such as oncologists; there simply are no real labour shortages in Britain.

One third of men in the 50 to 65 age group are unemployed; and there are plenty of other people with very intermittent employment.

	05-05-2003 02:04									#41
	Tired of ads?

I know I'd rather let a thousand cheaters in than have on my concience the sending back of even one person into death and torture.