03-05-2003 01:44									#1
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As some of you may know, yesterday was the local elections for many councils in England and Wales (and my first chance to vote ), and is usually used as a political barometer as to how the main parties are looking. Many pundits expected Blair's Labour to lose, but I haven't seen one that predicted such a dramatic change. Where I live, we used to have 26 labour councillors, 12 Lib Dems and 8 Conservative (Tory) (and 1 independent). We now have just 11 Labour, 17 Lib Dems and 19 Conservatives

More importantly, nationwide, Labour have lost 749 seats, Conservtives have gained 542, the Lib Dems have gained 166, and the BNP (far right) have gained (their first) 11 This is an enormous blow for Blair, and has been partly blamed on the Tories election campaign (which local wise, was very good) and on the Iraq war. Personally, I think it's more about peoples disillusionment with current Labour spending and taxes, as always, but I'm not sure.

Did anyone think the War, if it is that, would affect Labour this badly? Will Blair survive this, especially if it is echoes at the next General Election? How has IDS, who most people seem to think is not a good leader/shadow PM managed to gain far more than Hague? Is the BNP goign to get an MP at the next election?

Discuss. I guess this is mostly for fellow Brits, but I'm sure some knowledgeable foreignors might have a view on these issues.

	03-05-2003 01:48									#2
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+ 166 for the Libs ?
Does it mean the Libs have a chance to become a significant party again ?

	03-05-2003 01:49									#3
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How disappointing they didn't vote more for the Liberal Dems than the stupid Tories.

	03-05-2003 01:56									#4
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If anger at the Iraq War was the big deal here, the conservatives would not have gained so much.

	03-05-2003 01:56									#5
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My girlfriend was standing for election in the Shiplake constituency of South Oxfordshire.

Despite only being 22 years old and doing absolutely no campaigning whatsoever she still got 13.33% of the vote and came third in the voting: http://www.southoxon.gov.uk/NewHome...d&Name=Shiplake.

The results of district council elections have very little impact on national issues IMHO. I can't really see them as being any kind of barometer of public opinion about the war in Iraq. Anyone who voted based on their opinion of the war was entirely missing the point, I think. The local councils have a huge impact on local issues such as waste disposal, planning permission, allocation of recreational space and local building schemes. Those kind of criteria are what one should consider before casting a vote for or against a candidate. Your opinion on national issues should only be relevant if you're voting in a national election. That's what I think, anyway...

	03-05-2003 01:57									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi If anger at the Iraq War was the big deal here, the conservatives would not have gained so much.

You may have just summed up in one sentence what I was clumsily trying to articulate in my last post. Git.

	03-05-2003 02:00									#7
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How many seats are there in total? Could you please give percentages of before and after the elections?

	03-05-2003 02:04									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi If anger at the Iraq War was the big deal here, the conservatives would not have gained so much.

Iīd rather say many Labours simply didnīt vote. a Labour voting for the Tories because of Blairīs Irak politics would truly be a complete idiot.

	03-05-2003 02:06									#9
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The LibDem's gained a lot of seats, from what I've heard, in heavily Muslim areas due to disillusionment/anger over the Iraq War. All my voting for the LibDems however didn't manage to budge the Conservatives out of the Suffolk Coastal council though


The gains made by the BNP, I hope, will serve as a wake up call to the local parties in those areas and they'll work to get rid of those fascists by the next election.

	03-05-2003 02:06									#10
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I wasn't given a choice of any Labour candidates, so I was forced to vote for the Lib Dems.

	03-05-2003 02:13									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor + 166 for the Libs ? Does it mean the Libs have a chance to become a significant party again ?

They already are, in terms of number of voters, they were only a few percentage points behind the Tories, closer the the Tories to Labour.

quote: Despite only being 22 years old and doing absolutely no campaigning whatsoever she still got 13.33% of the vote and came third in the voting

We just elected a 21 year old Politics student, and anyone who knows how crap the local University is (it's not actually a university yet ) that was pretty scary. He was a Tory too.

quote: Anyone who voted based on their opinion of the war was entirely missing the point, I think.

Very true, and I agree with your whole sentiment, however I'm betting that it did affect people. I don't have that much in why people vote, especially with an average turnout of less than 30%

quote: How many seats are there in total? Could you please give percentages of before and after the elections?

Percentages wouldn't be that relevant IMHO, because it's all local. And to be honest, I haven't seen any. These results are from about 10000-15000 seats, and I think that's about half in so far. But before the elections, the BBC were saying that anything mroe than 500 losses for Labour would be a big problem, and more than 800 would be a disaster, and with only half in, looks like we'll get over 800. I thought the Lib Dems would have gained a bit more, but I'm happy with any Lib Dem gains, it shows we're going the right way. I may even stand next council elections.

I think about Iraq, it wasn't so much people being against it, but people seeing that Blair didn't listen to the will of the people, and thus didn't like him. He nosedived in the polls, and IDS gained, much though his losses, rather than people agreeing with him IMHO.

	03-05-2003 02:15									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat I wasn't given a choice of any Labour candidates, so I was forced to vote for the Lib Dems.

Most of my friends didn't even have contested seats

Luckily, I had 2 Labour, 2 Conservative, 2 Lib Dem and a Green Party to choose from

	03-05-2003 02:18									#13
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btw, the news this evening was referencing a total of around 20,000 council seats.

	03-05-2003 02:19									#14
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My council hasn't changed a bit. The Tories still have a more than comfortable absolute majority.

	03-05-2003 02:44									#15
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet My girlfriend was standing for election in the Shiplake constituency of South Oxfordshire. Despite only being 22 years old and doing absolutely no campaigning whatsoever she still got 13.33% of the vote and came third in the voting: http://www.southoxon.gov.uk/NewHome...d&Name=Shiplake.

Congrats to her BTW. 13.33% means she probably got neaer 25% of voters who supported her, since people have 2 votes (and by that website, most people used both). That's not bad, if she didn't campaign. I'm still shocked we elected a 21 year old Tory. He campaigned a lot, but he got almost 700 votes, the highest in his area.

	03-05-2003 03:03									#16
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quote: A British National Party candidate standing local elections has been arrested by police investigating irregularities in the nomination procedure. James Breslin, 32, a candidate in the Great Horton ward in Bradford, West Yorkshire, was arrested and released on police bail pending further inquiries. The police action came after trade unionists in the city contacted the electors who had nominated the eight BNP candidates standing in the election. It is understood two people on the list then contacted election officials to say they had not signed the BNP's papers. West Yorkshire Police confirmed it was investigating "two reports of irregularities regarding the election in two wards". Today a spokeswoman for the force said that in relation to this investigation "a man in his 30s has been arrested and released on police bail pending further inquiries". National BNP spokesman Phil Edwards said Mr Breslin was arrested after he went to the police voluntarily to complain that some people who had nominated him were being intimidated. Mr Edwards said the party denied the allegations and would be taking action for "false arrest and false imprisonment". A Bradford Council Election Services spokesperson confirmed it had "received information from two people who claim their names have been used without their consent to support the nomination of a candidate." She said the Returning Officer had no power to investigate such a matter and the information was passed to the police. The spokeswoman added: "Under electoral law, disputed nominations cannot be withdrawn by the Returning Officer but they can be challenged by electors after the election."

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100...mina
tion

They are so taking the piss.

	03-05-2003 03:12									#17
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Who is, the BNP or the people who complained (or both)? Much as I hate the BNP, if that many people voted for them, surely they can find someone to nominate them legally

	03-05-2003 03:18									#18
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Well it wouldn't be the first time a BNP candidate was convicted of electoral fraud.

	03-05-2003 03:34									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Well it wouldn't be the first time a BNP candidate was convicted of electoral fraud.

Nor the last, I'll bet.

	03-05-2003 05:54									#20
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I'm not surprised the BNP are getting noticed now, many people see this as an extreme time with rampant asylum claims flooding in on us and with the added threat of terrorists now entering people are more then willing to vote for an extreme party that gives them the simple promise of being safe but mentions none of the catches.

I voted Conservative, while my parents both voted Lib Dem, need to check how to conservates did for my region (anybody else from newcastle who could save me the time to go and look? )

Maybe Tony will be like Churchill after all, its what he wanted in reality. Both won the war against massive early criticism but Churchill was later dumped as pm (re-elected later i know) ... bad omen for Blair maybe.

IDS is nowhere near as good a speaker as Hague in my opinion, and i think many who wanted him out only to then look down the line of future leaders have realised what a stupid decision that was. Good luck to the Tories though, if Blair would just clamp down on asylum (we really need a few years of no-entry just to clear the back-log of applicants) and say NO to europe then i'd be happy to vote for them despite being right wing.

	03-05-2003 05:57									#21
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So how did labor fair?

	03-05-2003 07:25									#22
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Labour will be fine, people just used the Elections as a moan to the gotv....
I'm a tory tho so I'm dissapointed we coudnt make further gains

	03-05-2003 12:07									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus if Blair would just clamp down on asylum (we really need a few years of no-entry just to clear the back-log of applicants) and say NO to europe then i'd be happy to vote for them despite being right wing.

It would take a very special kind of bureaucratic indifference to deny entry to one who's life is threatened on the grounds that there's a bit of an administrative backlog.

	03-05-2003 17:11									#24
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Considering the UK takes in less than 2% of refugees in the world, I'm amazed at the asylum controversy here. The screaming about economic migrants is even more puzzling. They're coming here to work. Pay taxes. Contribute to society. How in hell did economic migrant become a dirty word?

	03-05-2003 19:26									#25
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Refugees are supposed to stop at the first safe country they arrive at though, so how come they travel half way across the world passing through all of europe to get to the UK ?

Starchild : The good hardworking type that we like to see arrive seem to be in the minority now.

	03-05-2003 19:37									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Refugees are supposed to stop at the first safe country they arrive at though, so how come they travel half way across the world passing through all of europe to get to the UK ?

Because they have extended family and friends here, and a welcoming community of similar people to help them settle. That's the usual answer.

Besides, the Dublin Convention places no requirement to claim asylum at the first border crossing because it (quite rightly) was set up to avoid allowing non-3rd world countries to shirk taking their share.

	03-05-2003 19:39									#27
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We don't let asylum seekers work for six months while their claim is being processed and we complain when they are given just 70% of the minimum benefit. What would a better policy be, starvation? We refuse to acknowledge the idea that existing, established ethnic communities may be the reason why people come here or the fact that it's a tad hard to tell what country you're in when you're trapped in the back of a lorry.

This country has gone mad. We've got labour shortages, a declining population (The Daily Mail aside "facts", the UK loses more people per year than it takes in), and a looming demographic collapse. Yet trained doctors and teachers are driving taxis and selling kebabs while people willing to do the work that no native born Briton wants to do are being kept out.

And the terrorism angle is weak. Honestly, what terrorist would get into the UK through the asylum system when they could just fly into Heathrow as a normal, undetectable traveller?

	03-05-2003 19:39									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Starchild : The good hardworking type that we like to see arrive seem to be in the minority now.

Damn. I should have readthat passage first.

Back that up or I'm going to call you a knee-jerk reactionary.

	03-05-2003 19:48									#29
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Unison, the country's largest public sector trade union, did a survey and found that refugees contribute 10% more to the economy than they take in benefits.

As for the elections - Scotland was interesting (minority parties and independents doing very well; the BBC reporting that the Conservatives had done 'very well' despite the fact that they entered the election with 18 seats and came out with 18 seats). The locals around here were pretty dull, except that our campaign helped keep the BNP out of Clitheroe. I couildn't vote myself because there was only one candidate in our ward - a Tory, unsurprisingly.

	03-05-2003 20:06									#30
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Wales- elections were rubbish, Labour easily held. Conservatives were SO close to getting my second vote until the said they'd "concentrate on North Wales", Plaid got the second vote. Vote Lib Dem with my first vote. Didn't make a blind bit of difference. My second-ever vote, did it by post this time- SO much better than walking all the way to the polling station.

I beat the Green Party and The UK Independance Party in arguments when they were out canvassing. And we're sure the Pro-life candidate got off with one of my mates a few years ago...

Didn't the SNP get trashed in Scotland? Perhaps the Conservatives doing well was a reference to them improving their majorities in their 18 seats or the fact that they gained support and reduced other parties' majorities in many of the seats they don't hold there?