03-05-2003 10:38									#1
	Cheat mode??? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Here's what I got opening the 2500bc save, staight after DLing and unzipping...

And the 3150 save...

Has someone been cheating?

	03-05-2003 10:58									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Relax, I got the same message upon opening the 4000BC save.... this is a created map, remember, and what you do is start a game, activate cheat mode and edit things in. That is what cavebear must have done to give us such a weird-looking start place.

	03-05-2003 12:09									#3
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so if a president (present or future) was to use cheat mode , how would we tell unless he did something truely outragous.

	03-05-2003 17:13									#4
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scarly!

	03-05-2003 21:33									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Hydey so if a president (present or future) was to use cheat mode , how would we tell unless he did something truely outragous.

Well, I guess we couldn't know.

	03-05-2003 21:53									#6
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Relax, I got the same message upon opening the 4000BC save.... this is a created map, remember, and what you do is start a game, activate cheat mode and edit things in. That is what cavebear must have done to give us such a weird-looking start place.

I'd love to take credit for a really weird and creative map, but it was from atomant.

	04-05-2003 00:13									#7
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this is odd

	04-05-2003 00:26									#8
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I thought atomant put starting positions down on the map in the map editor.
I don't like the possiblity of flagrant cheating by the prez.

	04-05-2003 01:45									#9
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lets not accuse anyone of cheating just yet

	04-05-2003 02:29									#10
	Put an end to popups!

After I received the map from atomant by email, I detached the file and then sent it directly to MWIA several days later. I don't think that would cause the cheat mode message to activate, and I didn't open the file myself.

I suggest MWIA forward my original email to Shade to see if the message appears when he first opens the file. If it shows that message then, then it was in there from atomant's construction and we have no need to worry.

Does that make sense?

	04-05-2003 16:18									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well I MIGHT still have the original email... IIRC, it was sent to my hotmail account, and pretty close to filled it up. When I downloaded it I deleted the message.

However, if it went to my Uni email then I should still have it..... In either case I can email the savegame that I haven't altered from when I received it, just likely not the original email itself.

Hope this is satisfactory, but I didn't (after two weeks of play) expect to have to keep the email any longer.

	04-05-2003 17:09									#12
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for the record, i used the civ map editor to make the map, the starting place was ramdomly selected, cave bear did not have anything to do with the startup location.

	04-05-2003 17:42									#13
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@MrWhereItsAt

I am sure you would never use the Cheat mode, I was more concerned if someone less trustworthy were to be elected president.

	04-05-2003 19:20									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

When you use cheatmode in a previous game it sometimes stays open when starting up a new game.

Might this be the answer?

	04-05-2003 20:25									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks for the vote of confidence Hydey, but I'd still like to do whatever I can to show the situation the save was in when I received it. shade - Can I send you the save as I received it? Note, this is the original save that I have NOT saved over again - it was last modified April 14th, which is about the time cavebear sent it to me. Then you can see (hopefully a trusted impartial Civ2er) that cheat mode was enabled before anything was done.

Could I have been in cheat mode with Civ2 last and that carried over? Possibly, but with the exception of the last demogame, I have not used Civ2 for a while, and I can't remember the last time I used cheat mode as I don't try and make my own maps/scenarios.

I don't know what more I can say unless I did actually receive or forward that email from cavebear to my Uni mail service, which is currently (typically) down at the moment. It should be up within 6 hours or so, in which case I will look to see.

If my install of civ2 has been the problem for this then I am sorry - I had no idea.

	04-05-2003 21:05									#16
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MWIA - I've just forwarded the original email to you at your hotmail address. Open it and see if Cheat Mode is on.

	04-05-2003 22:38									#17
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever lets not accuse anyone of cheating just yet

I wasn't accusung anyone, just saying that someone had to activate cheat mode, and now that it is on, a president could do whatever(inconspicuous) cheating he wanted(reveal map comes to mind) w/o anyone knowing. I wasn't saying MWIA is a cheat, but that there is the possibilite of a future prez cheating.

	04-05-2003 23:43									#18
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Bob - I don't view your post as any sort of accusation, just something surprising that needed to be discussed to figure out the cause of the computer message.

OK, I just gave up and opened the file from the original email from atomant. Opening it and immediately hitting f9 shows "Cheat Mode" on my screen and I didn't even make any game move.

It seems to be imbedded in the game from the start. It's going to be annoying to have that "Cheat Mode" message in all the screenshots and records, but what should we do?

If atomant can get it removed by re-doing some of the map-editing, do we want to start over? I personally dislike the idea of having that d*mn "Cheat" flag open the whole game, but maybe that is just me.

I think we could fairly replicate most of our decisions to make a new start honest enough, and MWIA could go through his moves pretty quickly.

So, first, can atomant get the "Cheat Mode" message out of his map, and second, do we want to redo the first turns?

I think we should re-start if it will get that out of our game..

	05-05-2003 00:11									#19
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quote: Originally posted by atomant for the record, i used the civ map editor to make the map, the starting place was ramdomly selected, cave bear did not have anything to do with the startup location.

It occurs to me that if you would just open the file from the email you sent me and let us know if F9 shows the cheat message, it would answer a lot of concerns...

	05-05-2003 00:43									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Just got the e-mail from cavebear-the origianal sent from cavebear to MWIA-here's what it says-

So, I would rather not have the cheat flag open whole game, if not for the annoyance, also for the possibility of future cheating. MWIA could replicate his earlier decisions easily if atomant could edit the starting positions to what they ended up being.

Last edited by Bob_Smurf42 on 05-05-2003 at 00:53

	05-05-2003 01:06									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OK, we have confirmation that the "Cheat Mode" came with the map. What to do?

Atomant, can you provide a map without the "Cheat Mode" flag up? We have to know if a restart is even an option. I love what I've seen of the map so far, but we can't have that cheat message in our game.

As I see it, we can't proceed until we hear from atomant. Or we could start a new game in the regular way. This one seems spoiled. And btw, we should now keep our current adminstration till the end of May. Just for convenience at any re-start.

	05-05-2003 04:26									#22
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I agree with much of the above, but to put the counter-argument, are we bring ultra-purist over the Cheat Mode message? I know there is a risk of a president (or presumably a minister) using the cheat mode, but so many turns have gone by that there will be significant differences (from huts and Barbarians) to where we are now.

Some possible alternatives?

1) Ask atomant to create a scenario using his custom map, putting in the units as they are now. Victory conditions to be set to the equivalent of military conquest. (I'm not a scenario expert, but this seems an appropriate solution.).

2) Appoint a "Minister For Truth And Justice" - someone who prepared to forego involvement in this game to view the map and monitor moves made by the president to look for signs of sustained runs of "lucky" moves, or ignoring opionions polled. Maybe the very existence of someone watching over this game might be sufficient deterrant.

	05-05-2003 09:42									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

why not just have MWIA save the game as a scenario right now, and then start that? it would work just as well. of course, any cheater could do the same thing to cover up his tracks and we'd never know. The scenario flag would always be toggled.

	05-05-2003 11:54									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by cavebear OK, we have confirmation that the "Cheat Mode" came with the map. What to do? As I see it, we can't proceed until we hear from atomant. Or we could start a new game in the regular way. This one seems spoiled. And btw, we should now keep our current adminstration till the end of May. Just for convenience at any re-start.

I don't see what the problem is. If we get a president that wants to cheat it is very simple to do so whether the cheat mode flag is set or not - eg save before revealing the map.

Let's get on with the game and not delay the elections any further.

RJM at Sleepers

	05-05-2003 15:02									#25
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Okay, I have my laptop with me and can do both if someone can email me the save game todate. Of course I am still in munich so it will take some time to do. My own preference is to save the game as a scenario and go from there as I am unsure when I will next check email. usually everry three days at the moment. So I vote for saving as a scen, then contiuing on with the game.

	05-05-2003 15:13									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

BTW. Dachau is an eye opener and a half.

	05-05-2003 20:36									#27
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I think saving the game as a scenaio would be sufficient. If we are electing presidents that we can't trust then we have bigger problems than this little "cheat mode" flag.

	05-05-2003 21:41									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

hmm all this nagging about a single wrong byte(or is only a bit) in a savefile...why not just switch it back...I have some info lying around somewhere about how the save is structured...this should make it possible to switch that bit back.

Shade

	06-05-2003 00:30									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by shade I have some info lying around somewhere about how the save is structured...this should make it possible to switch that bit back. Shade

Is it worth it just to remove the 2 offending words? As rjmatsleepers says, anyone who really wants to cheat could do so anyway, so it's not going to prevent it.

	06-05-2003 01:54									#30
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Just let MWIA save it as .scn, nobody can check anyway after a turn is played if its a save from a scenrio or a regular game.

If we cant trust our choosen president we might as well quit this game all togehter.